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Stupid political crap your friends post on facebook. - Page 263

post #3931 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by lasbar View Post

To please the voters.

No one like anarchy..

Still, why do they need heavy gear to prevent anarchy? And did the voters have a say in this?
post #3932 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by nootje View Post

Still, why do they need heavy gear to prevent anarchy? And did the voters have a say in this?

If you read CE quite often, most people on here would have applauded that decision.
post #3933 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by nootje View Post

Simple question from an even simpler guy: why does the police want to militarize and why are they allowed to?

There was a time in recent history when they were clearly outgunned by the bad guys. It was in response to that, but in typical US fashion, over compensation occurred. Now we have way to many folks with badges running around acting like an occupying force.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasbar View Post

If you read CE quite often, most people on here would have applauded that decision.

God you're a fucking asshole. Most people here, including me, have been putting forth this is part of the current problem. Your thoughts really have no connection with reality. You never miss a chance to make a pussy assed passive aggressive post that reflects more your inability to deal with reality than almost any of the most extreme positions put forth in the CE. You never deal with specifics but sling pussy laden mud at everyone any chance you get.
post #3934 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

There was a time in recent history when they were clearly outgunned by the bad guys. It was in response to that, but in typical US fashion, over compensation occurred. Now we have way to many folks with badges running around acting like an occupying force.

I guess the easy way was to give heavier arms to the police then to start disarming the populace, at least easier to sell politically. But then we arrive at a more interesting question (at least to me) why is it so hard to start disarming the people? I know about the association between guns and rebellion/freedom the US has, yet given the effects of ever increasingly more guns in civilian hands (although I don't know the numbers) has led to a loss in trust of law & order lately. (but again, this would be hard to prove by statistics as crime has been dropping for a long time, everywhere). Which is a circle that would be hard to quit.

Could it be that with decreasing participation in government/politics by the general population you see an increase in 'simpler' measures as politicians don't have the broad base anymore to tackle a problem intrinsically? Yet again this is going to circle back and strengthen all the time.. (which is what is happening across the pond as well, although on different issues).

oh well, just musing.
post #3935 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

There was a time in recent history when they were clearly outgunned by the bad guys. It was in response to that, but in typical US fashion, over compensation occurred. Now we have way to many folks with badges running around acting like an occupying force.

It's also related to the two middle eastern wars scaling down resulting in a surplus of military gear that the US Gov needed to sell off. Why not arm your police to the teeth at low low prices?
post #3936 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by nootje View Post

I guess the easy way was to give heavier arms to the police then to start disarming the populace, at least easier to sell politically. But then we arrive at a more interesting question (at least to me) why is it so hard to start disarming the people? I know about the association between guns and rebellion/freedom the US has, yet given the effects of ever increasingly more guns in civilian hands (although I don't know the numbers) has led to a loss in trust of law & order lately. (but again, this would be hard to prove by statistics as crime has been dropping for a long time, everywhere). Which is a circle that would be hard to quit.

Could it be that with decreasing participation in government/politics by the general population you see an increase in 'simpler' measures as politicians don't have the broad base anymore to tackle a problem intrinsically? Yet again this is going to circle back and strengthen all the time.. (which is what is happening across the pond as well, although on different issues).

oh well, just musing.

If a society is prone to violence and guns are available, you're inevitably going to have gun violence. I also do not think the US is more violent than many countries that have far stricter gun control but rather the prevalence of guns leads to more deadly outcomes. Here is some OECD data showing the US actually has a far lower assault rate than many countries that consider themselves far more safe than the US (including the Scandinavian countries). It also shows the murder rate where the US is tied for second highest.

http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/safety/

What I draw from this is it seems incidence of violent attacks is actually higher in other countries, but less likely to lead to murder, as the ready access to guns is not there.
post #3937 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

If a society is prone to violence and guns are available, you're inevitably going to have gun violence. I also do not think the US is more violent than many countries that have far stricter gun control but rather the prevalence of guns leads to more deadly outcomes. Here is some OECD data showing the US actually has a far lower assault rate than many countries that consider themselves far more safe than the US (including the Scandinavian countries). It also shows the murder rate where the US is tied for second highest.

http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/safety/

What I draw from this is it seems incidence of violent attacks is actually higher in other countries, but less likely to lead to murder, as the ready access to guns is not .

Very good point made.

It is the exact same argument developed by European Countries to reduce access to guns.

In the States, it is also a cultural thing nurtured by the emotional relationship Americans have with their guns.
post #3938 of 5454
A big difference between the US and Europe is that our crime is not distributed so "equitably" as it is there, but is concentrated in certain communities and demographics. Guns are likewise not distributed equally, but it's an inverse correlation -- in other words, if you live in a place where there is widespread gun ownership, or you're in a demographic that's likely to own guns, you're less likely to commit a crime or be a crime victim.
post #3939 of 5454
Purportedly from a Chris Rock interview:

Quote:
Here’s the thing. When we talk about race relations in America or racial progress, it’s all nonsense. There are no race relations. White people were crazy. Now they’re not as crazy. To say that black people have made progress would be to say they deserve what happened them before. So, to say Obama is progress is saying that he’s the first black person that is qualified to be president. That’s not black progress. That’s white progress. There’s been black people qualified to be president for hundreds of years. The question is, you know, my kids are smart, educated, beautiful, polite children. There have been smart, educated, beautiful, polite black children for hundreds of years. The advantage that my children have is that my children are encountering the nicest white people that America has ever produced. Let’s hope America keeps producing nicer white people.
post #3940 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

If a society is prone to violence and guns are available, you're inevitably going to have gun violence. I also do not think the US is more violent than many countries that have far stricter gun control but rather the prevalence of guns leads to more deadly outcomes. Here is some OECD data showing the US actually has a far lower assault rate than many countries that consider themselves far more safe than the US (including the Scandinavian countries). It also shows the murder rate where the US is tied for second highest.

http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/safety/

What I draw from this is it seems incidence of violent attacks is actually higher in other countries, but less likely to lead to murder, as the ready access to guns is not there.

Took me a while to read this, work got in the way. #notabigtimer and all such things..

I think you're right with the above. Interesting though that the US its assault rate is 1,5%, while the homicide rate is 5,2 per 100.000. If you assume that every murder is also an assault, it becomes 5.2 murders on 1500 assaults. comparing that with for instance my own country (surprising how many assaults we have btw!) the Netherlands: which would end up being 0.9 murders per 4900 assaults, or 1 murder per 5444 assaults if we stick to even numbers. In comparison in the US that would become 1 in 288 assaults.

I know its a bad use of statistics, but it would mean that a cop being assaulted would be 18.9 times more likely be murdered in the US than in the NL.

If I look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
of those 5.2 murders, 4.7 is with a firearm, so 90% .So in short, if a cop is assaulted he has a 1 in 288 chance of dying, one in 320 by firearm..
From that, I fully understand them wanting to feel safer wearing body armor and bigger guns, and shooting quickly or first as well.

Subtracting guns from that would make the US one of the safes countries on earth with just a 0.5 murder rate nod[1].gif
And again, yes I know that this is bad math smile.gif

@Ataturk, in my neighborhood it kind of works the other way. Where there are more guns you are more likely to die due to those guns, approximately 19 times more likely.. the MAD deterrent doesn't really work when there is concealed carry.
post #3941 of 5454
post #3942 of 5454
These numbers of death do not account for all. The ones knifed and buried, cement shoes pushed off a bridge or boat, dirty cops, prosecutors and judges etc., are not in the numbers. Which means there are far more murders than accounted for. Who hears a knife sticking someone? A gun shot and 911 office doesn't have enough phones.
post #3943 of 5454
What is this, a 1950s gangster movie?
post #3944 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

A big difference between the US and Europe is that our crime is not distributed so "equitably" as it is there, but is concentrated in certain communities and demographics. Guns are likewise not distributed equally, but it's an inverse correlation -- in other words, if you live in a place where there is widespread gun ownership, or you're in a demographic that's likely to own guns, you're less likely to commit a crime or be a crime victim.

I see you would deny both Daniel Patrick Moynihan's dictum "everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts," and Checkhov's gun "when introduced in the first act, a gun must go off in the second." But, as the Beatles sang, "happiness is a warm gun."
post #3945 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats View Post



I see you would deny both Daniel Patrick Moynihan's dictum "everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts," and Checkhov's gun "when introduced in the first act, a gun must go off in the second." But, as the Beatles sang, "happiness is a warm gun."

Moynihan also originated the thesis regarding the disintegration of family structure in poor black neighborhoods. This has gotten worse, not better, and there are many more black single mothers raising children than white, Hispanic, or Asian moms. You don't need a PhD in sociology to understand the correlation between the collapse of black families and the disproportionate level of violence and crime in black communities.

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