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Stupid political crap your friends post on facebook. - Page 262

post #3916 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG View Post

Since when is shooting in (ostensible) self defense tantamount to issuing justice? There's no "worth," or even punishment. It's a consequence.

Take your racism elsewhere.

It's a shame the idiots defend the criminal in this instance vs. using the instance to examine the broader context of things like community policing vs. a militarized occupying police force. Within the current paradigm both player's actions were predictable so why not change the game?
post #3917 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Is that box of Cigarillos worth millions of pounds of damage and your life? Not committing strong arm robbery is common sense.

Common sense is also:

Not punching a cop.
Not reaching for a cop's gun.

He would have been arrested if he had a) not punched a cop and b) not grabbed at a cop's gun.

As to the bolded do you really think it was remotely possible for the cop to know the shitfest that would result? That's stupid even for you.

I know a white finance guy that was walking back to his place quite high, police stopped him to ask if he was ok, he said he was allright so they told him to have a good night (I'm sure same would happen to some black dude) he actually ran after the car, jumped in the window and tried biting the cop (he was very high). He wasn't shot, his file stayed blank as it would have had a bad impact on his career and that just wouldn't be nice (he did have a good lawyer). I dunno about this case and for me it is rather irrelevent, what I do know is that the combination of workfare and prisonfare has created a hellish situation for the disadvantaged and that, overall, you see the effects in various ways (incarceration rates, various fees, violent deaths, low living conditions etc) so the problem is a systemic one. I'm also thinking the prepresentations of black males as almost animalistic in nature might have coloured the cop's perception of that teen dude as an unstoppable force, in other words he was probably really panicking.
post #3918 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

I know a white finance guy that was walking back to his place quite high, police stopped him to ask if he was ok, he said he was allright so they told him to have a good night (I'm sure same would happen to some black dude) he actually ran after the car, jumped in the window and tried biting the cop (he was very high). He wasn't shot, his file stayed blank as it would have had a bad impact on his career and that just wouldn't be nice (he did have a good lawyer). I dunno about this case and for me it is rather irrelevent, what I do know is that the combination of workfare and prisonfare has created a hellish situation for the disadvantaged and that, overall, you see the effects in various ways (incarceration rates, various fees, violent deaths, low living conditions etc) so the problem is a systemic one. I'm also thinking the prepresentations of black males as almost animalistic in nature might have coloured the cop's perception of that teen dude as an unstoppable force, in other words he was probably really panicking.
Unless this guy was on PCP this never happened.
post #3919 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract View Post

Unless this guy was on PCP this never happened.

It did happen, he was indeed high on a variety of substances, it is a guy I knew quite well at the time so it would have taken a really complicated, not to mention actually harmful and out of character, charade to fool me on this one.
post #3920 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

I know a white finance guy that was walking back to his place quite high, police stopped him to ask if he was ok, he said he was allright so they told him to have a good night (I'm sure same would happen to some black dude) he actually ran after the car, jumped in the window and tried biting the cop (he was very high). He wasn't shot, his file stayed blank as it would have had a bad impact on his career and that just wouldn't be nice (he did have a good lawyer). I dunno about this case and for me it is rather irrelevent, what I do know is that the combination of workfare and prisonfare has created a hellish situation for the disadvantaged and that, overall, you see the effects in various ways (incarceration rates, various fees, violent deaths, low living conditions etc) so the problem is a systemic one. I'm also thinking the prepresentations of black males as almost animalistic in nature might have coloured the cop's perception of that teen dude as an unstoppable force, in other words he was probably really panicking.

As I said the players are acting predictably and rationally within the current paradigm. Change the game and change the outcomes.

White finance guy got the OJ verdict: money buys immunity from legal outcomes. That's a whole different topic.
post #3921 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Take your racism elsewhere.

It's a shame the idiots defend the criminal in this instance vs. using the instance to examine the broader context of things like community policing vs. a militarized occupying police force. Within the current paradigm both player's actions were predictable so why not change the game?

I don't defend the thief or the looting at all.

I'm just saying bearing arms as a Police officer is bringing an extra layer of responsibility due to the potential social and economical consequences of such acts.

As being called an idiot by you, I take that as a badge of honour.
post #3922 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

As I said the players are acting predictably and rationally within the current paradigm. Change the game and change the outcomes.

White finance guy got the OJ verdict: money buys immunity from legal outcomes. That's a whole different topic.

Once again I don't know about the current situation but my guess is that the police officer did indeed act "within the norm", the problem being the norm.

As for legal outcomes my understanding at the time was that his own situation was, of course, taken into account and measures were taken to avoid bringing him great professional prejudice. If he was a house painter, not only would he have had a shitty lawyer but he would also not have been able to claim that. The judicial system being, all things being equal (and they aren't) based on ability to pay, I really don't see how anyone in their right mind can have any faith in it, aside from the interested fact that, yeah I got moneyz, I should be ok some may feel.
post #3923 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by lasbar View Post

I don't defend the thief or the looting at all.

I'm just saying bearing arms as a Police officer is bringing an extra layer of responsibility due to the potential social and economical consequences of such acts.

As being called an idiot by you, I take that as a badge of honour.

Straw man as no one here has ever argued what responsibility the cop had. In fact, idiot, I argued quite extensively in the Zimmerman thread that an armed person has responsibility to disengage and de-escalate in the Zimmerman/Martin scenario. Of course your feeble mind never registered that as you have already determined the universe of the possible for things I might or might not post.

Knowing the power society has given to law enforcement it is common sense not to punch cops and not to try and take their guns.

Fuuma: did white finance guy look like this white dood?
post #3924 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

Once again I don't know about the current situation but my guess is that the police officer did indeed act "within the norm", the problem being the norm.

Said that a couple times now. Seems like we're in agreement.
post #3925 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Said that a couple times now. Seems like we're in agreement.

I just don't know how every situation presented is supposed to show complete outliers as far as commenters are concerned (note that the best you can say for concealed carry and especially community policing is that Zimmerman might have been an outlier) chances are you got people acting within the usual range of possibles and according to the most usual habitus in a somewhat extreme situation but once that, in the end, is not even that outside the norm in their environment.

Other problematic aspects: police militarisation, small municipalities using fines targeting low-income individuals as cash cows in addition to being population control measures (so part of the workfare/prisonfare double trouble).
post #3926 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

I just don't know how every situation presented is supposed to show complete outliers as far as commenters are concerned (note that the best you can say for concealed carry and especially community policing is that Zimmerman might have been an outlier) chances are you got people acting within the usual range of possibles and according to the most usual habitus in a somewhat extreme situation but once that, in the end, is not even that outside the norm in their environment.

Other problematic aspects: police militarisation, small municipalities using fines targeting low-income individuals as cash cows in addition to being population control measures (so part of the workfare/prisonfare double trouble).

Think I've mentioned police militarization a few times too.

As far as small municipalities and fines...mine is famous for it. Got me one year ago today at 5:30am for $87. Cop got me just outside our development...a development where I'm the poor kid on the block. This nasty little tactic is ubiquitous now (along with other bullshit like civil forfeitures but that's also another conversation.)
post #3927 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Think I've mentioned police militarization a few times too.

As far as small municipalities and fines...mine is famous for it. Got me one year ago today at 5:30am for $87. Cop got me just outside our development...a development where I'm the poor kid on the block. This nasty little tactic is ubiquitous now (along with other bullshit like civil forfeitures but that's also another conversation.)

Yeah similar shit happened to me, my understanding is that in many small municipalities in the USA, this is an endemic problem facing disadvantaged communities, people like you and I maybe face it once every few yrs, are pissed, go online and pay the fee and no late/extra bullshit. Now I could go on about neighborhood/building rules and how I piss on them but it is entirely unrelated.

BTW this is a concern too:
http://www.wired.com/2012/06/64-drone-bases-on-us-soil/

In the end, and this ties up with rioting, it is understandable that certain communities would be pissed to the point of violent action (various motivations mingling in, from looting to a feeling of taking back the streets which has now been proven as a factor in certain historical events usually seen through other prisms, say the Paris commune). That the specifics if this case don't warrant it from the point of view of people inured to less intrusive, abusive and spaced-out interactions with the judicial system/police system is understandable but doesn't paint the right picture. People aren't rioting because R-nold's favourite or the so-called MSM is encouraging them, they don't need any encouragement, they live that shit every day.
post #3928 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston View Post

The 'us and them' mentality, which is primarily responsible for the rioting and looting, was created by the media.

If this were true, then the viewers of Fox News would be, to ape a line from dragonheart, rebelling, as opposed to just being revolting.
post #3929 of 5454
Simple question from an even simpler guy: why does the police want to militarize and why are they allowed to?
post #3930 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by nootje View Post

Simple question from an even simpler guy: why does the police want to militarize and why are they allowed to?

To please the voters.

No one like anarchy..
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