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Stupid political crap your friends post on facebook. - Page 196

post #2926 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I have lost count how many times you have claimed to be leaving for good. What are we at now?
Surely you've taken a 'departing' flight to a vacation spot ... only to return home at a later time. No?

And just generally speaking, I note that pop-psychology is all the rage among some of the every present mental giants.
Edited by RSS - 4/5/13 at 8:45am
post #2927 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

I was. And yes, I'll never be an entitled douche.

Just an regular douche. teacha.gif
post #2928 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

Ugh. I'm against gay marriage for the same reason I'm against interracial marriage and the same reason im against straight marriage, it should have nothing to do with the government. Go fuck whoever (or whatever, or how ever many) you want, but it's none of my business and I'm tired of paying taxes to support you people.
Dead on accurate statement.
post #2929 of 5454

What is the general objection to creating a secular replacement to marriage and taking marriage out of the legal realm? 

post #2930 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claghorn View Post

What is the general objection to creating a secular replacement to marriage and taking marriage out of the legal realm? 

Mostly financial at this point. Legally recognized marriage leads to requirements on employers to provide certain benefits, different tax structures, etc.

Without some legal structure, roommates would start claiming each other as dependents.
post #2931 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claghorn View Post

What is the general objection to creating a secular replacement to marriage and taking marriage out of the legal realm? 
I don't think there is one. There have been plenty of conservatives who say they do not care if civil unions are allowed they just want marriage to be treated as a religious ceremony. Personally i think that the government has no business being involved with marriage at all as there is supposed to be a clear distinction between church and state.
post #2932 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihambrecht View Post

I don't think there is one. There have been plenty of conservatives who say they do not care if civil unions are allowed they just want marriage to be treated as a religious ceremony. Personally i think that the government has no business being involved with marriage at all as there is supposed to be a clear distinction between church and state.

They say that - but I don't think they mean that unions between men and women should also be called civil unions in the eyes of the law.
post #2933 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRon View Post

Mostly financial at this point. Legally recognized marriage leads to requirements on employers to provide certain benefits, different tax structures, etc.

Without some legal structure, roommates would start claiming each other as dependents.

Right, but this is not a religious, ZOMG RUIN SOCIETY reason, which is probably the most common thing.
post #2934 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRon View Post

They say that - but I don't think they mean that unions between men and women should also be called civil unions in the eyes of the law.
A few days ago I listened to a discussion on rush limbaugh where callers were arguing that they do not care if gay couples have all the benefits of marriage, they just do not want the word marriage to be changed due to their religious beliefs. Personally, I believe at this point all couples regardless of gender should be able to apply federally for some sort of civil union eligibility which grants them the same rights as marriage and leave actual marriage to religious bodies.
post #2935 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihambrecht View Post


Personally, I believe at this point all couples regardless of gender should be able to apply federally for some sort of civil union eligibility which grants them the same rights as marriage and leave actual marriage to religious bodies.

This. What is the general objection to this? It makes perfect sense. It's fair. Straight couples aren't married by the government because marriage isn't a legal term. Straight couples, when they register at the court house, get a civil union license rather than a marriage license. Of course, I imagine nothing will change as far as people, gay or straight, calling each other "husband" and "wife"...and in practical terms, gay folks will end up married as there are plenty of churches willing to perform the ceremony.  

post #2936 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihambrecht View Post

the government has no business being involved with marriage at all as there is supposed to be a clear distinction between church and state.

Marriage has been a state entity for >6000 years.

Christianity has been a thing for just under 2000 years.
post #2937 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajak View Post

Marriage has been a state entity for >6000 years.

Christianity has been a thing for just under 2000 years.

I am not sure you understand your own line of thinking, but it doesn't really get you where you want to be.
post #2938 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claghorn View Post

This. What is the general objection to this? It makes perfect sense. It's fair. Straight couples aren't married by the government because marriage isn't a legal term. Straight couples, when they register at the court house, get a civil union license rather than a marriage license. Of course, I imagine nothing will change as far as people, gay or straight, calling each other "husband" and "wife"...and in practical terms, gay folks will end up married as there are plenty of churches willing to perform the ceremony.  

"Civil union" was invented as a "separate but equal" institution for gay couples in Vermont. The conservatives don't want "marriage" to be taken away from straights and replaced by the tainted civil unions, so that's not going to happen.


It does make sense, but that's not how it's going to play out. Pretty obvious we're on the eventual track towards universal marriage rights for all couples. Just a matter of time now, as older voters die out.
post #2939 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajak View Post

Marriage has been a state entity for >6000 years.

Christianity has been a thing for just under 2000 years.

My hunch is that this is pretty misleading on a number of counts--one being the very loose definition of "state" to include, I suppose, any kind of political power at all. And even if we agree to that definition of the state, at least according to some very influential accounts, one aspect of classical Greek culture was the separation of public and private life, so that marriage/domesticity was strictly a private affair.

But perhaps even more to the point: at least in English legal history, marriage (and most of the important property rights surrounding it) largely fell to ecclesiastical courts & canon law. This suggests that law and religion was both divided up but also intertwined around this particular issue. And it certainly looks as though this is a case where the line between law and religion needs to be clarified in the American context as well.
post #2940 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claghorn View Post

This. What is the general objection to this? It makes perfect sense. It's fair. Straight couples aren't married by the government because marriage isn't a legal term. Straight couples, when they register at the court house, get a civil union license rather than a marriage license. Of course, I imagine nothing will change as far as people, gay or straight, calling each other "husband" and "wife"...and in practical terms, gay folks will end up married as there are plenty of churches willing to perform the ceremony.  

Gibonious really hit the nail on the head. The conservatives don't want to give up the word "marriage" for men and women. They want gays to be separate but equal, which we all know is never truly equal, or they wouldn't have to be separate. And it's such a petty thing... but it blows my mind when I talk to people who feel this way, and they say "it's the same thing, why can't they just accept civil unions?" and I say "so why don't you?" and they say "because my marriage is a traditional marriage" facepalm.gif

And then you get into the whole circular argument about "marriage should be able to lead to children"... "so infertile couples should not be allowed to marry?" facepalm.gif

It's just so very boring and redundant.

Well, as long as this is an issue, I have to hear so much less about abortion - so I'm for dragging it out a while.
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