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Stupid political crap your friends post on facebook. - Page 175

post #2611 of 5454
I'm a believer even if I harbour a dislike of the human structures around my chosen faith and I respect Atheists people..

It isn't an issue with my friends as long no side is trying to convert the other..
post #2612 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

Lol. I'm a total atheist but I go to church anyway because the business is great. Any sensible atheist would keep his or her atheism to him or herself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

I've been thinking about doing that very thing. This church is up the street from me http://www.centraluccdallas.org/events/ and they seem pretty reasonable, and it's small enough that there's a good chance I would be the only lawyer there, or at least the only one in my specialty and price range.

How delightfully cynical of you both happy.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I keep my lack of belief quiet. My lack of belief is really not something that defines me much so it is no burden. I've found people can handle a statement that you worship the devil better than they can handle the thought you do not believe in a higher power. I enjoy Xmas greatly and distance myself from militant atheists. If your atheism defines you that much you have the same issues as any fundie.
Well said. It's just not something I worry about, or feel any pressure to worry about. On the other side the /r/atheism angry internet atheist fundies basically come off as people who really hate religion, probably because of a bad home life that they associate with religion. Hating religion is a lousy thing to base your life around.

I know a lot of agnostic "spiritual" people who hold on to something because of lingering guilt about giving up their religion, or they aren't comfortable with questions like "what happens after we die" without some supernatural outlet.
post #2613 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

I know a lot of agnostic "spiritual" people who hold on to something because of lingering guilt about giving up their religion, or they aren't comfortable with questions like "what happens after we die" without some supernatural outlet.

I've seen this point come up before on this forum- that people who describe themselves as "spiritual but not religious" are waffling atheists- and I think it's a particularly strange misapprehension. Of course, there's a host of terms here that need to be untangled- atheism vs. agnosticism vs. religious nonaffiliation- not one of which is logically conditional on any other, and not one of which necessitates a metaphysically naturalist, non-spiritual worldview. That said, I think it is extremely rare that an atheist and/or agnostic would describe themselves as "spiritual but not religious." Sam Harris is the only one I know who has made any noises in this direction, and that's only because he had an experience on ecstasy that he can't philosophically account for. In the West, at least, most "spiritual but not religious" people would simply be nondenominational monotheistic believers.
post #2614 of 5454
A common position that I have seen is people who are "spiritual" who believe that there is "something out there", but, if asked, will tell you that it is invisible and unknowable. If you ask me, there is no meaningful distinction between that position and atheism.
post #2615 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by tagutcow View Post

I've seen this point come up before on this forum- that people who describe themselves as "spiritual but not religious" are waffling atheists- and I think it's a particularly strange misapprehension. Of course, there's a host of terms here that need to be untangled- atheism vs. agnosticism vs. religious nonaffiliation- not one of which is logically conditional on any other, and not one of which necessitates a metaphysically naturalist, non-spiritual worldview. That said, I think it is extremely rare that an atheist and/or agnostic would describe themselves as "spiritual but not religious." Sam Harris is the only one I know who has made any noises in this direction, and that's only because he had an experience on ecstasy that he can't philosophically account for. In the West, at least, most "spiritual but not religious" people would simply be nondenominational monotheistic believers.

I wouldn't describe them as "waffling atheists," more as "waffling theists." Mostly people who have given up on whatever their particular religion was (Catholics for most of the people I know,), but haven't found anything to replace it with. In the absence of some formal structure, they just become "spiritual" or whatever term you want to use. They doubt God (making them nominally agnostic), but want to believe in something, so they don't go full-atheist.

I'm not talking about people who have put great effort into formalizing their doctrine, I'm talking about people I know. It seems like a lot of people get stuck between a religion they abandoned and a new internally consistent philosophy. Seems to make them uncomfortable. Certainly I was uncomfortable for awhile until I dropped the last vestiges of religious thinking. Not saying the inevitable end point is atheism, just that it is an end point.
post #2616 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

A common position that I have seen is people who are "spiritual" who believe that there is "something out there", but, if asked, will tell you that it is invisible and unknowable. If you ask me, there is no meaningful distinction between that position and atheism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

I wouldn't describe them as "waffling atheists," more as "waffling theists." Mostly people who have given up on whatever their particular religion was (Catholics for most of the people I know,), but haven't found anything to replace it with. In the absence of some formal structure, they just become "spiritual" or whatever term you want to use. They doubt God (making them nominally agnostic), but want to believe in something, so they don't go full-atheist.

I'm not talking about people who have put great effort into formalizing their doctrine, I'm talking about people I know. It seems like a lot of people get stuck between a religion they abandoned and a new internally consistent philosophy. Seems to make them uncomfortable. Certainly I was uncomfortable for awhile until I dropped the last vestiges of religious thinking. Not saying the inevitable end point is atheism, just that it is an end point.

Well, we can chalk this up to differences in experience, and also to the likely fact that I bring a different set of assumptions to what people say than you guys do. For my part, I'm actually backtracking on my earlier comment that most spiritual-but-not-religious people are "nondenominational monotheistic believers," I think most are probably not-particularly-ardent followers of established religions. There's a huge mass of people out there who accept the doctrines of a religion without being particularly religious (like- say- me!)
post #2617 of 5454
People just want to think they don't end at death. These days folks are not so caught up in following a dogma of restriction to make sure their immortal soul gets to paradise but they still want to believe in that immortal soul.
post #2618 of 5454
I fluctuate back and forth; having said this, I still make it to church 1-3 times a week. Mass is relaxing, and my priest is a pretty good friend. I find it adds a nice dimension to my life.
post #2619 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

People just want to think they don't end at death. These days folks are not so caught up in following a dogma of restriction to make sure their immortal soul gets to paradise but they still want to believe in that immortal soul.
My wife is in that category. She doesn't even like the idea that dogs don't get to live past death shog[1].gif
post #2620 of 5454
Life is a dream. We all must wake.

Eh, I'm of the opinion that unless asked, you ought to keep your faith, lack thereof, or anything else, generally to yourself. I describe myself as atheist, agnostic, or nonreligious, as all three are true, and all three have slightly different connotations that come in handy.
post #2621 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajak View Post

Life is a dream. We all must wake.

Eh, I'm of the opinion that unless asked, you ought to keep your faith, lack thereof, or anything else, generally to yourself. I describe myself as atheist, agnostic, or nonreligious, as all three are true, and all three have slightly different connotations that come in handy.

You can't be an atheist and an agnostic. One is a neutral position of uncertainty, the other is firmly taking a stance that you don't believe in a god.
post #2622 of 5454
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post #2623 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Mouse View Post

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+1
post #2624 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Mouse View Post

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajak View Post

+1

This is a good retort. I feel so illuminated now.
post #2625 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadly7 View Post


This is a good retort. I feel so illuminated now.

It's very zen.
Warning: Actual explanation! (Click to show)
You can be philosophically and rationally uncertain of the truth of a belief you hold, while holding it.

Edited by Kajak - 3/24/13 at 10:23pm
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