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Stupid political crap your friends post on facebook. - Page 132

post #1966 of 5454
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

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Does not appear to mention funding. .

First correct thing you've written.
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I'm not particularly interested in that in any case, as the mainstream interpretation of the Constitution (there's that word again) allows for the government to fund anything it judges to be in the best interests of the nation if not explicitly forbidden by the Constitution. Fine for you if you choose to believe otherwise, but I don't feel any particular need to justify my reasoning under a rigid constitutional framework when that's not the system we operate under.

The wording of the Constitution is the exact reverse of this. The original Articles grant explicit powers to the Feds and prohibit certain actions by the States. The Tenth Amendment makes even more explicit the original document's instructions that the Feds.

"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite." - James Madison, Federalist #45

"[A Bill of Rights] would contain various exceptions to powers not granted; and, on this very account, would afford a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do?" - Aexander Hamilton, Federalist # 84

"The Tenth Amendment was intended to confirm the understanding of the people at the time the Constitution was adopted, that powers not granted to the United States were reserved to the states or to the people. It added nothing to the instrument as originally ratified." - US vs. Sprague, 282 U.S. 716 (1931)
post #1967 of 5454
In light of dopey's repeated and appropriate scorn of the off-topicness of this conversation, I'll just leave you with this:

That's a nice opinion you have there.
post #1968 of 5454
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Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

If the government was taking away profitable ground from industry, there'd be pushback. There really isn't. Small companies still get started, often with government help, and industry seems pretty happy with the whole arrangement. Whether the nation should be happy about this is another question.

I oppose socialized risk of all forms and see no difference between the leech wearing a Kiton suit, a professorial robe, or a scientist's smock. If the work one does has value, or the product one markets has utility, our system will naturally provide you with the requisite rewards. However this system only works for all when subsidy for failure is eliminated.

BTW, as one counter-example to your "no government = no science" garbage, polio was cured without government funding. While FDR came up with the idea for the NFIP ("March of Dimes"), its $233 million in polio research money - including the grant that funded Jonas Salk's work - came almost exclusively from small private donations.
post #1969 of 5454
Thread Starter 
Was this idiocy posted?

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post #1970 of 5454
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Originally Posted by mordecai View Post

Was this idiocy posted?
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it certainly showed up in my feed....
post #1971 of 5454
Started a new thread for the science funding discussion if those folks want to continue it:
http://www.styleforum.net/t/322460/discussion-on-government-science-funding/0_100
post #1972 of 5454
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Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

I'm not going to argue that said funding hasn't led to some great things, GPS as an example; however, I just find it hard to believe that these things wouldn't have happened without government intervention.

My opinion is that government investment crowds out private investment and at the very least you see a great diminishing on return for the investment.

This has been discussed here already. Still, just to make it more clear: private industry doesn't invest in science and research that don't yield foreseeable profits, and science and research often don't even have foreseeable outcomes (or timeframes for them) let alone profitable applications. Not to mention some projects are just too big for a private company to handle. Do you really think, for example, a private company would have put a man on the moon? Built supercomputers to model atomic interactions? Sent a rover to Mars to collect rocks?

The money spent on science research is money well spent. Whole sectors of private industry that the US is a world leader in are due to past government projects -- the Internet, nuclear power, microprocessor technologies, etc. The United States is the rightly revered nation in these fields because of those projects, not despite them.
post #1973 of 5454
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Originally Posted by why View Post

The money spent on science research is money well spent.

If enough people share this opinion, it should be easy to amend the Constitution to permit it, no?
post #1974 of 5454
post #1975 of 5454
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Originally Posted by Rambo View Post


i don't think most people understand that one of the larger governmental expansions ocurred under nixon (more than even johnson) and one of the larger contractions ocurred under carter.

also the government spend far more (and have always spent more) on middle economic security than welfare and that much of what is commonly put under the umbrella of welfare is aimed at helping the middle class. social security, unemployment insurance, workmans compensation, medicare, pension plans these are all things that the government spends most of its money on and every time election cycles come up people complain the government spends too much and that welfare should be cut. what about middle class welfare, what about coroporate welfare
post #1976 of 5454
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post #1977 of 5454
im confused, because those Connecticut totals are wrong.
post #1978 of 5454
I am a Libertarian. But I always wonder if other libertarians seriously think we are anywhere near the mainstream.
post #1979 of 5454
Yeah not even close. But that's not even the dumbest thing about that chart.
post #1980 of 5454
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Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

i don't think most people understand that one of the larger governmental expansions ocurred under nixon (more than even johnson)

You think incorrectly. Sentient beings recognize that govt expansion is not a partisan proposition. Nixon declared "we're all Keynesians" and closed the gold window. A first class stamp at the start of the Nixon presidency cost the same as it did a century prior, six cents. From a monetary perspective, Wilson (enacted the Fed), FDR (devalued the dollar by decree and outlawed gold ownership) and Nixon (made all money political fiat money) are the Axis Of Evil
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what about middle class welfare, what about coroporate welfare

Cut it all. There are seventeen enumerated federal powers. Eliminate everything else.
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