or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › Stupid political crap your friends post on facebook.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Stupid political crap your friends post on facebook. - Page 69

post #1021 of 5454
Thread Starter 
The role and degree of force in the economy is an important concern for free market thinking. To both Communism and Nazism, a major dose of it was a functional requirement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etienne View Post

It was very much in the spirit of the time. Many people in the 1930s were discussing the merits of various forms of incentive-based plans (as opposed to the soviet-style mandatory plans).

Incentives are distinct from force.
post #1022 of 5454
Nazis were socialists in the same way that North Korea is a "democratic republic" run by "the people's"
post #1023 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordecai View Post

The role and degree of force in the economy is an important concern for free market thinking. To both Communism and Nazism, a major dose of it was a functional requirement.

Free market thinking is not a form of government, it is merely an "ideal" ideological pole toward which certain right-wingers gravitate. Comparing it to istorically existing government yields obvious differences for that reason.
post #1024 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordecai View Post

Incentives are distinct from force.
Indeed. And until 1942, most of the German economic policy relied on tax incentives. When mandatory planning came into force, it was mainly because of the war, not because the Nazis were "socialists", and not fundamentally different from war economies everywhere.
post #1025 of 5454
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etienne View Post

It was very much in the spirit of the time. Many people in the 1930s were discussing the merits of various forms of incentive-based plans (as opposed to the soviet-style mandatory plans).

I would agree with you that Nazism is not like contemporary European Socialism, but for many I believe the fear is that in some of the ways that most distinguish free market capitalism from socialism, the primary distinctions between socialists and nazis or communists are matters of degree.
post #1026 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordecai View Post

I would agree with you that Nazism is not like contemporary European Socialism, but for many I believe the fear is that in some of the ways that most distinguish free market capitalism from socialism, the primary distinctions between socialists and nazis or communists are matters of degree.

Everything when it comes to historical european political parties or current ones is a matter of degrees. In fact this doesn't mean anything. Once again "free market capitalism" is some ideal that part of certain political parties ascribe to not an actual form of governance.
post #1027 of 5454
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etienne View Post

Indeed. And until 1942, most of the German economic policy relied on tax incentives. When mandatory planning came into force, it was mainly because of the war, not because the Nazis were "socialists", and not fundamentally different from war economies everywhere.

I am not an expert, but I don't think "Tax incentives" is really an honest way of describing the German economy in the 1930s.
post #1028 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordecai View Post

I would agree with you that Nazism is not like contemporary European Socialism
Neither was it comparable to socialism in the 19th century or socialism in the 1930s. That's a pretty important fact to realize.
Quote:
in some of the ways that most distinguish free market capitalism from socialism, the primary distinctions between socialists and nazis or communists are matters of degree.
Again: there are many other economic and political systems besides free market and socialism. The fact that Nazi Germany was not very free-market does not make it any closer to socialism, either in its contemporary incarnation or in its 1930s-era incarnation.
post #1029 of 5454
Thread Starter 
You Nazi pricks are going to push me over 10,000 posts.
post #1030 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordecai View Post

I am not an expert, but I don't think "Tax incentives" is really an honest way of describing the German economy in the 1930s.
Look it up. You will be surprised. Economic policy, until 1942 at least, was much more "standard" (according to the times) in Germany than many people think. The real differences were in the political system.
post #1031 of 5454
Jeebus you guys are posting some heavy political arguments on facebook. I would like to subscribe to all of your newsletters.
post #1032 of 5454
Thread Starter 
I'm not talking about explicit economic edicts. I'm talking about those political differences and the massive influence that they and their instigators had on the supply and demand [and other economic] considerations of businesses of the country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

Free market thinking is not a form of government, it is merely an "ideal" ideological pole toward which certain right-wingers gravitate. Comparing it to istorically existing government yields obvious differences for that reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etienne View Post

Neither was it comparable to socialism in the 19th century or socialism in the 1930s. That's a pretty important fact to realize.
Again: there are many other economic and political systems besides free market and socialism. The fact that Nazi Germany was not very free-market does not make it any closer to socialism, either in its contemporary incarnation or in its 1930s-era incarnation.

And yes, everything (and every government) has a context and a level of degree within a logical/philosophical system. That doesn't mean that the logical means and ends of that system also change. Hence the concern.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

Jeebus you guys are posting some heavy political arguments on facebook. I would like to subscribe to all of your newsletters.

lol
post #1033 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordecai View Post

I'm not talking about explicit economic edicts. I'm talking about those political differences and the massive influence that they and their instigators had on the supply and demand [and other economic] considerations of businesses of the country.
And yes, everything (and every government) has a context and a level of degree within a logical/philosophical system. That doesn't mean that the logical means and ends of that system also change. Hence the concern.
lol

But why talk about socialists and communists in the same breath anyway? They don’t have much in common considering socialists are a typical center left to left (depending on your views and the country) market-democracy party. Isn't your "concern" just a more subtle way of reformulating the common wisdumb argument that communists states and fascists states are the same as we can both dissolve them in the undifferentiated waters of totalitarian regimes (most useless word ever and not even true most of the time as the regimes in question usually aren't totalizing).
post #1034 of 5454
Thread Starter 
As I've been saying, it's in certain logical concerns that their philosophies are similar. I think it worries a lot of people. On a personal level, I'm probably closer to your view than to Lighthouse's, but I understand his (or at least I think I do) too.
post #1035 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordecai View Post

As I've been saying, it's in certain logical concerns that their philosophies are similar. I think it worries a lot of people. On a personal level, I'm probably closer to your view than to Lighthouse's, but I understand his (or at least I think I do) too.

Well both regimes have values beside turning everything into an economical action, which may make them seem similar, but it is merely because market-democracies have been so utterly integrated as the neutral/objective choice that the very hrash values underlying their structure stay hidden from most.

On the other hand I don't really see many (non-retarded) people worried about the possible links between fascism and social-democracy, let's not make a mountain of a molehill.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Events, Power and Money
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › Stupid political crap your friends post on facebook.