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Canvas by sewing machine vs Fused

post #1 of 13
1/23/12 at 1:05am
Thread Starter 
For CMT labour cost, what percentage are you willing to pay more for canvas by sewing machine vs fused?
My tailor charge me 45% more. Shall I use fused for cheaper fabric? Your comments are highly appreciated.
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post #2 of 13
1/23/12 at 3:11am
This depends what you mean by 'by sewing machine'. Does he have a Strobel pad-stitching machine which will be used for padstitching the canvas?
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post #3 of 13
1/23/12 at 3:28am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum View Post

This depends what you mean by 'by sewing machine'. Does he have a Strobel pad-stitching machine which will be used for padstitching the canvas?

I don't know what is a Strobel pad-stitching machine. But I saw my tailor has a very simple machine like a old fashion manual sewing machine which cost around USD800.- (as he said). In which he said is use for canvas. Please correct me if I am wrong, it is better to use canvas for summer fabric while for heavy winter fabric will have little difference canvas and fused.
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post #4 of 13
1/23/12 at 3:47am
A Strobel pad-stiching machine costs around $40,000 afaik. You would not want to sew the canvas using a standard straight-stitching machine, the result is going to be terribly stiff and probably no better than using fusing. If he doesn't have a proper pad-stitching machine then the pad-stitching should be done by hand.
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Originally Posted by Classic Car View Post

Please correct me if I am wrong, it is better to use canvas for summer fabric while for heavy winter fabric will have little difference canvas and fused.

Fusing may be less noticable with heavier fabrics, but canvas is always better, especially when considered over a longer time-period of wearing.
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post #5 of 13
1/23/12 at 4:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum View Post

A Strobel pad-stiching machine costs around $40,000 afaik. You would not want to sew the canvas using a standard straight-stitching machine, the result is going to be terribly stiff and probably no better than using fusing. If he doesn't have a proper pad-stitching machine then the pad-stitching should be done by hand.
Fusing may be less noticable with heavier fabrics, but canvas is always better, especially when considered over a longer time-period of wearing.

Highly thanks for your kind comments. For my present tailor, maybe I am better to switch to fused for cost saving. How would you compare Stobel pad-stiching machine than done by hand? How can people distinguish them without cut open the jacket?
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post #6 of 13
1/23/12 at 7:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic Car View Post

How would you compare Stobel pad-stiching machine than done by hand? How can people distinguish them without cut open the jacket?

That's probably a question for someone like JeffreyD. I do know that a lot of very high-end RTW brands (e.g. Tom Ford) use machine-padded canvas using a Strobel, so it is probably just as good as doing it by hand otherwise they would not do it. The barrier for smaller tailors is the cost of the machine, as for most it is not worth the $40,000 investment.
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post #7 of 13
2/27/12 at 6:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum View Post

That's probably a question for someone like JeffreyD. I do know that a lot of very high-end RTW brands (e.g. Tom Ford) use machine-padded canvas using a Strobel, so it is probably just as good as doing it by hand otherwise they would not do it. The barrier for smaller tailors is the cost of the machine, as for most it is not worth the $40,000 investment.

I found out my tailor just attached the floating canvas and the main canvas has almost no thread on it. What do you think when compare to machine or hand padded canvas?
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post #8 of 13
2/27/12 at 7:06am
Canvass creates shape and adds body for the chest and shoulder area. Pad stitching is used to adhere the three layers of the chest area. The hymo, (this is the material used to make the canvass) haircloth and flannelette covering. If you are making large volumes of canvass it only makes sense to use a machine to pad the layers. It is too time consuming and labor intensive to do by hand in large volumes.
The other area that requires pad stitches is to adhere the canvass to the cloth in the lapels. This is probably what your tailor is referring to, padding the lapels. He probably has a blind stitch machine. It is ok if you know how to use the machine and you know how to hold the lapels to create the roll, but again, using a machine is used to produce large volumes of work in less time. This is what creates the roll to the lapel.

Fusing is used to add body to the cloth but there is no shaping in fusing. You will not come close to the benefits of canvass by using fusing alone. Once you can recognize the difference, there is no comparison, regardless of the cloth weight.

Fusing is actually better for light weight than heavy weight cloth because it somewhat prevents the cloth from wrinkling and puckering, gives a smoother look to the fronts. Heavier weight cloth doesn't need this.

Whatever extra you pay for canvass fronts will be worth it as the jacket ages and immediately apparent with the feel and comfort when wearing the jacket.
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post #9 of 13
2/27/12 at 9:48am
What about a jacket that has a canvas behind the fusing--can that be used to shape it?
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post #10 of 13
2/27/12 at 10:01am
It can but when fusing is fused to cloth, the nature of the cloth is changed and compromised. It's not as supple because it has an artificial backing attached to it. Fusing changes how the cloth will be shaped by stretching and shrinking. Much of the purpose of fusing is to stabilize cloth, especially lighter weight cloth that is more difficult to tailor.
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post #11 of 13
2/27/12 at 9:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

Canvass creates shape and adds body for the chest and shoulder area. Pad stitching is used to adhere the three layers of the chest area. The hymo, (this is the material used to make the canvass) haircloth and flannelette covering. If you are making large volumes of canvass it only makes sense to use a machine to pad the layers. It is too time consuming and labor intensive to do by hand in large volumes.
The other area that requires pad stitches is to adhere the canvass to the cloth in the lapels. This is probably what your tailor is referring to, padding the lapels. He probably has a blind stitch machine. It is ok if you know how to use the machine and you know how to hold the lapels to create the roll, but again, using a machine is used to produce large volumes of work in less time. This is what creates the roll to the lapel.
Fusing is used to add body to the cloth but there is no shaping in fusing. You will not come close to the benefits of canvass by using fusing alone. Once you can recognize the difference, there is no comparison, regardless of the cloth weight.
Fusing is actually better for light weight than heavy weight cloth because it somewhat prevents the cloth from wrinkling and puckering, gives a smoother look to the fronts. Heavier weight cloth doesn't need this.
Whatever extra you pay for canvass fronts will be worth it as the jacket ages and immediately apparent with the feel and comfort when wearing the jacket.

Dear Despos,

Fusing is better for light wieght cloth. But the meaning for light weight cloth is for hot summer. Fusing does not allow air to go through freely which make its hotter than canvas. My tailor advise me to make canvas for summer coat while I can use fusing for winter jacket as a cost saving. I am confuse a bit.
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post #12 of 13
2/27/12 at 9:36pm
So that means the fused winter cloths will wear even warmer because of fusing according to your tailor. If you can't see or tell the difference when he fuses and when he doesn't then it is not worth the cost to you. Pay the extra cost if you discern and appreciate the difference it makes.
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post #13 of 13
2/28/12 at 1:48am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

So that means the fused winter cloths will wear even warmer because of fusing according to your tailor. If you can't see or tell the difference when he fuses and when he doesn't then it is not worth the cost to you. Pay the extra cost if you discern and appreciate the difference it makes.

My previous tailor only knows how to make a fused jacket. After I change to my present tailor, he mainly make canvas jacket and occassionally make a few fused one. I only ask him to do CMT. He keep on increasing the CMT charge which I start to complain a bit and then he suggestted to make me fused one which is 40% cheaper. He does not even offer half canvas which he said is not meaningful. Recently, I found out some discount cloth which I like the pattern & colour but quality is not high. I brought to my tailor last week and asked him to make it fuse for a test try. Because for a fused jacket, different tailors may make the quality different. BTW, i can select some cheap but fansy pattern, colour & style because labour is cheaper for fused. I don't know his reason behind but he said to me "Even a cloth is US$2.-/m. It is worth to pay a higher CMT to go for canvas. Actually, the cloth which I bring is USD25.- for 2m. For some staple and timeless style, I will buy good cloth and have it canvas.
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