Deadlifts n' Squats

yerfdog · Jan 23, 2007

I've had some back and knee problems, but deadlifts seem to help my back, and with proper technique my knees are fine (straight back, keeping knees from wiggling to either side or too far forward). It's also by far the best hamstring exercise I have ever done.

I'm about the same size as you and my legs are not particularly strong. When my friend introduced me to deadlifts last year I started out doing 135 pounds - so you should be able to add quite a bit of weight without worrying about injury as long as you keep your back straight and focus on proper technique more than finishing the set when you start out.

The Devil's Hands · Jan 23, 2007

Originally Posted by javyn

a trick to getting good form with squats is to try and never let your knees go past your feet as you squat down

Bullshit.

This is the right way to do squats.

Valgar · Jan 23, 2007

Yea my deadlifts and squats are the same too.

AdamG · Jan 25, 2007

Just a few random thoughts

Squats:
- if you are squatting with a decently wide stance, focus on pushing your knees out when coming out of the hole.
- place the bar as far back on your back as possible
- when coming up keep your eyes and head pointed up
- go all the way down
- be doing front squats and lunges to help your back squat

Deads:
- focus on pushing your feet through the floor
- mixed grip will help you lift more, overhand will train your grip more
- it's not about arching your back, it's about keeping it flat
- experiment with sumo and conventional styles, not only to find your strongest form but to work your body differently
- be doing good mornings, shrugs, SLD/RDL, grip work and front squats to help your deads

knucks · Jan 25, 2007

About squats, it depends on what kind of stance to use. The powerlifting style is to place it further on your back, bodybuilding is a bit higher up..right below traps.

Deads: it's okay to arch your UPPER back, keep your lower back straight.

edit: AdamG: I respect your comments on it all but by looking at your numbers, you don't have much room to talk.

But hey, if the form's right, right?

AdamG · Jan 26, 2007

Originally Posted by knucks

edit: AdamG: I respect your comments on it all but by looking at your numbers, you don't have much room to talk. But hey, if the form's right, right?
385/275/440 at 205 aren't good numbers? What are your totals then? Why you even said that when I haven't posted my stats I don't know.

coachvu · Jan 29, 2007

Originally Posted by vinhle37

In regards to your question about how far down you should go, there are two school of thoughts. One says that you should go glutes should be almost touching the ground. The other says that your thigh should not pass 90 degrees when going down. Personally I like to go down until i'm almost touching the ground. I find that doing this stimulates more of my quadriceps.

The tops of your thighs should never go lower than parallel to the floor. This exercise is already demanding on your knees, and going lower is terrible for them. I have had two different orthopedists corroborate this. They even make devices that beep when your thighs are parallel to the floor.

knucks · Jan 29, 2007

Originally Posted by AdamG

385/275/440 at 205 aren't good numbers? What are your totals then? Why you even said that when I haven't posted my stats I don't know.
If those are your numbers, my mistake then. S/B/D ? I saw on your blog your numbers, now I see they are in kg. My mistake

knucks · Jan 29, 2007

Originally Posted by coachvu

The tops of your thighs should never go lower than parallel to the floor. This exercise is already demanding on your knees, and going lower is terrible for them. I have had two different orthopedists corroborate this. They even make devices that beep when your thighs are parallel to the floor.
When you go to parallel, you put pressure on your kneecaps.

vanity · Jan 29, 2007

You could also do front squats. It's virtually impossile to cheat or really hurt yourself on them. Provided you go down all the way, you're gonna come up straight everytime.

gyea · Jan 31, 2007

bad example of a deadlift

coachvu · Jan 31, 2007

Originally Posted by knucks

When you go to parallel, you put pressure on your kneecaps.

Agreed, but that's considered a full squat. For example, if you were lifting competitively, it would not count as a rep unless you went to at least parallel. There are plenty of machine that provide great leg workouts while also reducing the stress on your knees, so if knee problems are a concern, I would avoid bar squats completely.

eric23 · Jan 31, 2007

gyea - that was painful to watch

DLs and squats should definitely be your most fatiguing lifts out of your whole routine. If they aren't you are definitely doing something wrong.

Ott · Jan 31, 2007

anyone looking to fix some nagging squat form issues, pick up this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Stren...e=UTF8&s=books

I'm far from an expert, but it really helped me. It's written as a guide to prospective trainers, so it goes into grotesque detail and really helps one to understand the mechanics of both movements.

Definitely has helped me with regard to grip and back placement, heel placement, head alignment etc. For example, he says that the "look up at the ceiling" advice is quite wrong and potentially dangerous, and unlike many other books Starting Strength explains thoroughly why.

AdamG · Feb 1, 2007

Originally Posted by knucks

If those are your numbers, my mistake then. S/B/D ?

I saw on your blog your numbers, now I see they are in kg. My mistake

Yeah sorry about that, it's in kg's and it's my first time doing unilateral work so the weights are low

And it's S/B/D.

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