Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Men's Clothing › Discussion Thread for "Practical Thoughts on Coherent Combinations for Beginners"
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Discussion Thread for "Practical Thoughts on Coherent Combinations for Beginners" - Page 23

post #331 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

.................................
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewfoot View Post

Oh goodie!
Thanks for the above post and for getting this thread back on track. The key is finding a suit that truly does fit. Not something that fits well enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

Well said Mr. Corbera
Slew,
I think you and Dopey are saying the same thing in different ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

1. Navigate all elements of each “fit” to one point in the path from country to city: thinking about the casual suit
Rare is the man who cannot look well turned out in a decent black tie rig. Rare, too, is the man who cannot look splendid in a discreet, unmarred city ensemble.
Why not dress in both every day, then? Awesome, right?
“Black tie every night?” you think, “That’s nuts.” It is.
Wearing a city look every day might be nuts for you, too, though.
I am hoping that you, as a beginner, have given this some thought at this point in this thread and have made a decision on which way to go.
If a city look does work for you, execute the basic and unimpeachable versions of it first until everything about it becomes second nature. The combinations are simple and known. What will happen if you are interested in clothes is that such simplicity will lead you to thinking productively about quality and fit. It will not be dour, it will be great fun.
If a city look does not work for you, rather than going first to the country/casual clothes department to accessorize and rusticate your charcoal gray pinstripe, what I would like you to consider instead is what we will call the casual suit. In the old days we might have called it a weekend suit or even a Friday suit. . . .

My original post was to describe a choice I had to make that I thought was relevant to the topic. Then I thought "who cares" and deleted it. But since my choice was to wear a "weekend" suit of the type Vox described just above, I will mention it again -
I was invited to a dinner party in someone's home into which I knew a lot of effort had been put (both the home and the dinner). The home is very over-the-top-but-still-formally decorated. I also knew that while the hosts were not strictly conservative or formal dressers, they were not necessarily casual about dress either (at one of their prior parties, I recall that one of them wore a corset). A tweed jacket didn't seem right but neither did a serious business suit. So I went with Despos's favorite spongy black & white houndstooth suit, light blue shirt and a black grenadine tie.
post #332 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

So I went with Despos' favorite spongy black & white houndstooth suit, light blue shirt and a black grenadine tie.

Sounds like the right choice. I'll be it looked great.
post #333 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

My original post was to describe a choice I had to make that I thought was relevant to the topic. Then I thought "who cares" and deleted it. But since my choice was to wear a "weekend" suit of the type Vox described, I will mention it again -
I was invited to a dinner party in someone's home to which I knew a lot of effort had been put (both the home and the dinner). The home is very over-the-top but still formally decorated. I also knew that while the hosts were hardly traditional dressers, they also were not necessarily casual about dress (at one of their last parties, I recall one wore a corset). A tweed jacket didn't seem right but neither did a serious business suit. So I went with Despos' favorite spongy black & white houndstooth suit, light blue shirt and a black grenadine tie.

Your choice sounds like a good one, but it sounds like a good opportunity for a kind of more casual black tie, if you have such things. For instance, a peak-lapeled velvet dark blue jacket, black or blackwatch trousers, and a black bowtie. Something like:

247
post #334 of 595
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

1.Navigate all elements of each “fit” to one point in the path from country to city: examples of coherent city/formal/public combinations for beginners
Here is the graphic cheat sheet that I used two posts back:
532
So what are the elements that anchor an ensemble at the furthest margin of city/formal/public? All the sliders to the right?
Let’s take a look (images clickable for larger size.)
270
  1. It is always a suit. It can be a two piece suit, single or double breasted, but single breasted is safer. A three piece suit with a single breasted vest (waistcoat if you prefer) without lapels can be a tolerable archaism depending on location and what you do.
  2. The color of the suit is always dark blue, or shades of gray. Not brown, not tan. The pattern is solid, or variants of solids like birds-eyes, nailheads, sharkskin, etc. Acceptable patterns from the casual world include discreet pinstripes, chalk stripes (don't let this throw you, but striped suits come from tennis and ball sports) and fine herringbones. Plaids and box checks, well, any check, are too rusticating for a role here.
  3. The material is always smoothly finished worsted wool (not flannel, silk, cotton etc. which we will discuss later.)
    285
  4. The hip pockets on the jacket have straight flaps. The breast pocket is a welt. Pants can have flat or pleated fronts. The pants can be held up with a belt, suspenders, or waistband adjustors as you prefer. Acceptable forms from the casual spectrum, depending on where you live and what you do, are cuffs on the pants, and center, side vents, and hacking and ticket pockets on the jacket. Patch pockets are too rusticating.
  5. Shirts are white, either barrel or double cuffs, point or semi-spread collars. Acceptable forms from the casual spectrum, depending on where live and what you do, are solid light blue shirts or blue and white stripes.
  6. Neckties are solid grenadines or other textured woven silks, wedding tie patterns in silk, silk prints with discrete repeating non-figurative patterns. Sheen is medium to matte during the day, can be more at night. Diagonally striped ties are okay unless you’re British, for whom special rules still exist about such patterns.
    402
  7. Breast pockets have no squares or hankies. Acceptable from the casual spectrum are fine white linen hankies, puffed in or edges out in a plain fold. A silk print square is okay in principle, but is often undermining in practice.
  8. Shoes are black lace up plain or cap toe oxfords. Acceptable influences from the casual world are discreet broguing on a cap toe or a wingtip, and shoes in a dark oxblood or dark brown. Not suede. Derby versions outside of the Anglo-American sphere are fine.
  9. Socks are not fun.
Now, do not misinterpret this list. Deviations from it that remain for all practical extents equivalently formal and good looking are many. The exact elements might differ slightly here and there depending on where one lives. Climates with seasonality, or ones of extremes, might suggest options not presented above.
Nevertheless:
If your goal as a beginner is to look great, well, here is a way that you can do it reliably every time in a way that works all across the world and in nearly every social circle that expects coat and tie. In fact, every man should be able to assemble this look even if he needs to call on it rarely.
232
So, why is it happening so infrequently? It could be that when a look is made so plain, the wearer feels that a lack of quality in make or fit is more keenly revealed. "I'll fool the eye," the thinking might go, "with this crazy sock, or this pizza grenade pocket square, or maybe...just maybe...a color common in the women's department."
This might be true, but I do not conclude it is the most common issue. I think that what I see is that a lot of guys probably know, even today, how this type of look gets put together. They've seen it in movies, on TV, and some even still read.
These guys (maybe you!) then develop doubts: maybe it is too formal, too public, too city.
And you know what? It just might be...for you. Think about this.
The most common reaction seems to be to rusticate this formality by taking the city look and staging a country invasion. After all, don't those snappy dressers do this often? Well, some do, some don't.
The case that I will make in the next set of examples is that it is better for beginners to do this holisticallly across the board rather than piecemeal. Do not put a moustach on the Mona Lisa of the city look if the city look is not right for your life. Save it for that event or occasion for which is it right for your personal circumstances.
261
Don't worry: we have not given up on the suit. In the next post, we will look at examples where the sliders all move back toward the casual/private/country.

Excellent -- if I knew how to insert the .gif with the vigorously clapping man, it would go here.

One question. You said:
Quote:
4.The hip pockets on the jacket have straight flaps. The breast pocket is a welt. Pants can have flat or pleated fronts. The pants can be held up with a belt, suspenders, or waistband adjustors as you prefer. Acceptable forms from the casual spectrum, depending on where you live and what you do, are cuffs on the pants, and center, side vents, and hacking and ticket pockets on the jacket. Patch pockets are too rusticating.

What of jetted pockets? Wouldn't they be even further towared city on the slider than flapped?
post #335 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

.................................

So I went with Despos' favorite spongy black & white houndstooth suit, light blue shirt and a black grenadine tie.

Asked the distributor and that cloth weight is the best seller of the entire range of their cloths, contrary to internet rhetoric.
post #336 of 595
Thread Starter 
174

?
post #337 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

174
?

Lesser 30942. Mini houndstooth. Could be the lighting but mine seems higher contrast than in your photo.
post #338 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
174
?

Lesser 30942. Mini houndstooth. Could be the lighting but mine seems higher contrast than in your photo.

and how were others dressed for the occasion D.? Would you wear the same thing if you had to do it again?
post #339 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

Shirts are white, either barrel or double cuffs, point or semi-spread collars. Acceptable forms from the casual spectrum, depending on where live and what you do, are solid light blue shirts or blue and white stripes.

I'm not sure if you were looking for dissent or not, but I wouldn't necessarily say that light blue or striped shirts are more casual, in fact this:

tumblr_lpb897V4lE1qiq0uqo1_500.jpg


(minus the beard) looks far more formal and solemn in my opinion than the pic you offered:

58e1374d_Mj19z.jpeg


...Im not a fan of stark white shirts with 'colorful' ties (non-solid ties that aren't near in color to the jacket), -the look doesnt seem serious or subtle enough. To me, a tie should not be the place to flaunt color or pattern in a suit, since it only accentuates the frivolous nature that is the modern necktie. Best to match a solid necktie with the jacket and have fun with one's shirts instead!
post #340 of 595
..
Edited by Mr.P - 2/8/12 at 2:35am
post #341 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Svenn View Post

I'm not sure if you were looking for dissent or not, but I wouldn't necessarily say that light blue or striped shirts are more casual, in fact this:
tumblr_lpb897V4lE1qiq0uqo1_500.jpg
(minus the beard) looks far more formal and solemn in my opinion than the pic you offered:

Not with that dandy pocket square he has going on... biggrin.gif
post #342 of 595
Thread Starter 
A cautionary interlude:
post #343 of 595
No surprise that she needed black to match the black suit.
post #344 of 595
Wow, she really gets moving there in the middle.
post #345 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

A cautionary interlude:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


uhoh.gif


New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Men's Clothing
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Men's Clothing › Discussion Thread for "Practical Thoughts on Coherent Combinations for Beginners"