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*** Official F/W 2012/2013 Runway Thread *** - Page 56

post #826 of 903
fuck menswear
post #827 of 903
I already forgot what most men's collection looked like confused.gif, a visit to the first pages is in order.
post #828 of 903
Originally Posted by brad-t View Post

fuck menswear

Yeah...these just reaffirm for me what I said earlier about Rad Hourani. Though I like his shit on its own, part of what really appeals to me is the unisex aspect. Whenever I see these great women's RTW collections it just makes me feel like men are relegated to an inferior domain for fashion (I know I'm not alone on this, either). Nonetheless,I believe we are quickly moving in the right direction. Not long ago fashion was in an haute couture dominated realm and menswear wasn't even a legitimate thing.
post #829 of 903
Rad can blow my dick.

Paris was such shit this year. Honestly when I am surprised that I like a Stella collection, designers need to get on their game.
post #830 of 903
Originally Posted by sipang View Post

One difference (besides everything else) between McQueen and Ervell is that McQueen was a womenswear designer first while Ervell was until recently exclusively menswear and that logically informed the way they went about approaching their men's collection. I think Ervell is, or was for a time, very intent on developing a coherent vision/aesthetic/whatever... seasons after seasons albeit in a subtle way and within or at the margins of a pretty strict menswear framewrok. It's pretty much the opposite of Savile Row-trained McQueen who was all about spectacle, grandiose and shock and who simply didn't seem to care about menswear that he saw as an inadequate outlet for creativity.
(I am mostly talking out of my ass.)
Originally Posted by snowmanxl View Post

Designers like mcqueen and ervell have a belief that menswear shouldnt change from season to season. this is what i get from their interviews...too early for the snowman to expand on this, maybe someone can chime in smile.gif

McQueen didn't think men's fashion shouldn't change, he thought that there should be a better way to go about it / a new way to do it that nobody was trying yet.  It sounded to me like he was frustrated with his own limitations in the area, which I can imagine coming from someone who was so brilliant with women's stuff, and then put out fairly mediocre mens' collections with the occasional gem.



There are good men's designers out there. Raf is really good menswear designer, Hedi's a good menswear designer, and then you've got someone like Kim Jones, who is doing a totally different thing altogether... but if you look at the shows as a whole, then I don't know where's it going. There's got to be a different way of looking at things, do you know what I'm saying? 


post #831 of 903
I think McQueen wasn't frustrated with his own limitations in menswear but with the limitations placed on menswear by, well, whatever you want to call it, let's say society. He says in that interview (I think it was that one) that he can cut some crazy stuff, but in menswear, what's the point? For whatever reason, people (men and women, in my opinion) are less tolerant of radical changes in men's clothing. There's a solid framework in place regarding what works for guys—you don't see any very successful men's dresses, instance—and McQueen found that boring. He could probably make all sorts of cool stuff, but he didn't see any point because, he implies, nobody would want it. So you're right that he didn't think men's fashion should be static; but he thought it was static, which is what killed his interest. Going back to what sipang said, a guy like Patrik Ervell, on the other hand, isn't bothered by the framework that exists. He's fine working within those parameters and moving things forward slowly.

I do like looking at the women's stuff, but it never appeals to me as much as men's clothing for the simple reason that I don't wear it. I also don't entirely understand it for that reason. I find I'm not very critical of women's clothing. I don't approach it thinking about what I would like to wear so it kinda lowers the bar and I find that I like a lot of different things indiscriminately. I'm more interested going back and looking at older men's collections.
post #832 of 903
On the other hand, some of his men's collections were just weird, I get the impression he didn't really know what he wanted to do with it and I wonder if the limitations weren't at least partially stemming from his own conception of menswear.

Maybe by "crazy stuff" he just meant he could make a mean 3pce suit but didn't find it very stimulating peepwall[1].gif

My knowledge about McQueen is nonexistent though...
post #833 of 903
Just guessing here, but I think his weird stuff was him trying to find a way to make menswear grandiose and shocking, the way he wanted his clothes to be, like you said above. Whether it was always successful or not is another story. It's funny because he could do some awesome stuff with women's clothing, but it's like he didn't know how to do the same (or didn't care to) with his menswear. It's not hard to find menswear designers who've pushed the boundaries more than McQueen did on men's clothing.
post #834 of 903
Yeah that's why I could see his traditional tailoring background in menswear acting as some kind of blinders.
post #835 of 903
yeah, I see what you mean
post #836 of 903

Sipang, are there any google tricks when searching for information on designers to eliminate the 400 pages of shitty web shops? Fuck that's annoying.  Anyway, I've always loved McQueen.





JM: If you hadn't trained on Savile Row, how would you have entered the fashion industry? 
AM: I'd have slept my way there. 





Joyce McQueen interviews her son, April '04 (Click to show)


Joyce McQueen: I would have liked to have invited the late Peter Ustinov for dinner, for his wit and conversation. Who would you like as a dinner guest and why? 
Alexander McQueen: What, if I could choose anyone? 
JM: Anyone in the world. 
AM: Elizabeth I ... 
JM: Why would you want Elizabeth I? The history maybe? 
AM: 'Cause she's an anarchist. 
JM: She's an anarchist? 
AM: She was an anarchist, yeah. Do you want to have a bit of debate on this? 
JM: Well, not at the moment, no. 
AM: Because, y'know, she kind of founded the Church of England under her father, with all the upheaval from the French and the Scottish ... 
JM: Who are your other ones? 
AM: Jesus of Nazareth, to check if he really exists, and it's not just we've been reading some Peter Pan book for the past 2,000 years. Or Mel Gibson, to be there if Jesus wasn't true.

JM: If you could live and work as a designer in any era, which one would it be? 
AM: Any time? Future as well? 
JM: Future as well. But particularly the past. 
AM: Let's stick to the past then. I'm thinking cavemen and loincloths. 
JM: What about Tudors and Stuarts? 
AM: Er ... I'm answering the questions! Most probably ... 
JM: What about - 
AM: I'm thinking ! Fifteenth-century Flemish, Netherlands. My favourite part of art. Because of the colours, because of the sympathetic way they approached life. 
JM: Simplicity, you mean. 
AM: I'm not going to get into a big art debate with you. 
JM: No, I'm trying to get to the bottom of why you like that. 
AM: 'Cause I think they were very modern for their times, in that period and in that part of the world. 
JM: You spend as much time as possible in your beautiful cottage in the country. Do you find that the inspiration you get down there features in your work? 
AM: I don't find inspiration there - it gives me a peace of mind, Mum. Solitude, and a blank canvas to work from, instead of the distractions of the concrete jungle. 
JM: Right. So it does inspire you in some ways then. 
AM: Not technically. Not country life or bobbing rabbits. It's the peace and quiet.

JM: As you know, I'm a Simply Red and Elton John fan. Who are your favourite artists? 
AM: As in singers? 
JM: Yeah, well, y'know, groups, whatever. Because at one time, you were very much into classical music. 
AM: Beyoncé. No, I'm only joking. 
JM: He was about, what, 15. I know because I've still got them at home. 
AM: I think composers. People like Michael Nyman, who compose an original piece of music - believe it or not, the artists today are inspired by people like Michael Nyman and Philip Glass, who come up with unusual sounds. 
JM: I know, I know, that's where pop music comes from ... 
AM: Nah, it's like the architect who designed the Gherkin [Norman Foster and his Swiss Re tower in London] inspires people, or Alexander McQueen does a collection that inspires other people to do different things and move things forward. Rap music's been around for too long now to be inspirational. The words are, but the music isn't. 
JM: You haven't given me an answer there. You haven't come out with a group. 
AM: I have - Philip Glass and Michael Nyman.

JM: All right, then. I'll ask another question. You have travelled extensively around the world but still have not been to the Isle of Skye, which is the root of your McQueen history. Will you ever visit that area? 
AM: Mmm ... yes. 
JM: In the near future? 
AM: Yes. 
JM: Right. And that follows on to my next question: what do your Scottish roots mean to you? 
AM: Everything. 
JM: Well, where do I come in? 
AM: [laughs] Oh you're from the Forest of Dean, yeah. What do you mean, where do you come in? 
JM: Well, your Scottish roots mean a lot to you. So where does your mother's side come in? 
AM: What does my mother's side, the Welsh side, mean to me? 
JM: I'm not Welsh! I'm Norman! 
AM: All right, Norman! Where does this Norman come from? 
JM: Well they come from Viking stock. 
AM: That answers a lot for an awful lot of people, I think. I feel more Scottish than Norman.

JM: You recently got your deep-sea diving certificate, didn't you? 
AM: Yeah, underwater diving. 
JM: Well, two of my family discovered the wreck of the Marie Rose, deep-sea divers. Just explains that you've taken up deep-sea diving as well. It's a follow-on really, isn't it? 
AM: So from the McQueen side I've got anarchy, and my mum's side, underwater diving. 
JM: The calm part. You are often described as an architect of clothing, and I know that you have a keen interest in architecture. What is the most breathtaking building you've ever seen? 
AM: Ronchamps, by Corbusier. 
JM: What do you think of the modern buildings in London? 
AM: I love the Gherkin. 
JM: You do? 
AM: I think it's fantastic. 
JM: But you don't like any of the old architecture in London? 
AM: Well, yeah, but it's not as nice as it is in Italy or Paris.

JM: If you hadn't trained on Savile Row, how would you have entered the fashion industry? 
AM: I'd have slept my way there. 
JM: Or, I don't know ... 
AM: Other ways. I'd have found other ways of getting into it. 
JM: Do you look at something else and say, "I could have done that as well"? 
AM: Photo-journalism. It's art for the modern times. I think it captures a moment in time that is spontaneous and that reflects where we are. The one I couldn't have done is be an architect, because I don't have the brain capacity or the patience. 
JM: No, you haven't got the patience, have you? You mix with VIPs, celebrities, aristocracy ... How does coming home and being the baby of the family make you feel? 
AM: I'm never fazed by it, because whenever I get home, Dad will always ask me to make him a cup of tea. So it's just normal.

JM: If you were prime minister or in government, what policies would you implement to make the UK a better place to live? 
AM: More politically correct police officers on the streets. And more focus on the north of England instead of just the south, on not so developed parts of the country. 
JM: What do you mean, "politically correct police"? 
AM: Well, not homophobic police, not racist police, you know? The police need to come down to street level. 
JM: Success has brought you financial security. But if you lost it all tomorrow, what would be the first thing you would do? 
AM: Sleep. I'd be pleased. 
JM: I said you'd go on holiday. 
AM: What with? I'd lost it all!

JM: When you received your CBE last October, you told me and Dad that you locked eyes with the Queen and it was like falling in love. What was it about her presence that captivated you? 
AM: I made a pact with myself that I wasn't going to look into her eyes. 
JM: But you did. 
AM: I did. There was a simultaneous lock, and she started laughing, and I started laughing ... 
JM: It was a nice moment, wasn't it? 
AM: It was. We caught it on camera where we're both laughing at each other. She asked a question, "How long have you been a fashion designer?" and I said, "A few years, m'lady." I wasn't thinking straight - because I'd hardly had any sleep. 
JM: You were nervous. 
AM: I was really tired. And I looked into her eyes, it was like when you see someone across the room on a dancefloor and you think, "Whoa!" It was like when I looked into her eyes, it was obvious that she had her fair share of shit going on. I felt sorry for her. I've said a lot of stuff about the Queen in the past - she sits on her arse and she gets paid an awful lot of money for it - but for that instant I had a bit of compassion for her. So I came away feeling humbled by the situation, when I wouldn't have even been in the situation if it wasn't for you. 
JM: I thought it was a great honour. 
AM: I didn't want to do it. 
JM: It was an honour for you ... 
AM: Yeah, but I had my views on what it stands for.

JM: What is your most terrifying fear? 
AM: Dying before you. 
JM: Thank you, son. What makes you proud? 
AM: You. 
JM: Why? 
AM: No, no, ask the next one: "What makes you furious?" You! [laughs] 
JM: No, go on, what makes you proud? 
AM: When things go right, when the collection goes right, when everyone else in the company's proud. 
JM: What makes you furious? 
AM: Bigotry. 
JM: What makes your heart miss a beat? 
AM: Love. 
JM: Love for children? Love for adults? Love for animals? 
AM: Falling in love.

· Taylor-Wood says 
"I like Alexander McQueen's work a lot: he's always pushing boundaries, and he's rough around the edges. The idea of this hard-edged genius being interviewed by his mum, by the person that spawned him, really appealed to me."





There's a video that I can't find right now because I'm at work of one of his shows where a hologram of Kate Moss was projected and it's amazing.  2006 I think.  I'll look it up later if I remember.









"I find beauty in the grotesque, like most artists," McQueen says. "I have to force people to look at things."

While such a mind-set has, at times, given life to the most heart-wrenchingly beautiful imagery, it may have its downside. When I first visited the designer at his home almost 10 years ago, for example, he took me by the hand and announced, "Come on. I want to show you my arsehole." The treat in store was not — thankfully — what it seemed but an enormous and strangely compelling oil painting facing his unmade bed and dominating the entire room. With its dark center surrounded by rays of rainbow color, it looks more like a giant and particularly flamboyant sunflower. Given McQueen's introduction, however, this is clearly not the case. "Do you like it?" McQueen asked at the time, before running off, hooting with glee, and leaving me alone to contemplate the oversize orifice at my leisure.




The Real McQueen (Click to show)



Alexander McQueen is sitting at a suspended glass table that hangs from the kitchen ceiling of his Victorian home in East London. The onetime bad boy of British fashion, dressed, as always, in a T-shirt, jeans, running shoes, and a McQueen cashmere sweater, is doing nothing more dangerous today than cooking an impressive dinner of monkfish, potatoes roasted with garlic, and salad. That said, any scene of domestic bliss is not quite uninterrupted. The designer lives with his three dogs, Minter, Juice, and Callum. The latter, a Rhodesian ridgeback, spends the evening throwing his considerable weight at the door. McQueen, never one to mince words, can't let him into the room with us, he tells me, "because he'll bite you."

Above us is a skylight upon which stands an Allen Jones table. Its top rests on an alabaster-skinned mannequin, clad in stockings and suspenders, neatly positioned on all fours. This, it almost goes without saying, makes for suitably graphic viewing when seen from below.

"I find beauty in the grotesque, like most artists," McQueen says. "I have to force people to look at things."

While such a mind-set has, at times, given life to the most heart-wrenchingly beautiful imagery, it may have its downside. When I first visited the designer at his home almost 10 years ago, for example, he took me by the hand and announced, "Come on. I want to show you my arsehole." The treat in store was not — thankfully — what it seemed but an enormous and strangely compelling oil painting facing his unmade bed and dominating the entire room. With its dark center surrounded by rays of rainbow color, it looks more like a giant and particularly flamboyant sunflower. Given McQueen's introduction, however, this is clearly not the case. "Do you like it?" McQueen asked at the time, before running off, hooting with glee, and leaving me alone to contemplate the oversize orifice at my leisure.

The designer's extraordinary imagination today runs the gamut from the breathtakingly lovely to the plain morbid. Take, for example, the bucolic beauty of the final showpiece of his most recent collection, a dress constructed almost entirely out of fresh flowers that fell to the floor as the model wearing it walked. McQueen's mind, though, dwelled on nothing more idyllically pastoral than death.

"Remember Sam Taylor-Wood's dying fruit?" he asks. "Things rot. It was all about decay. I used flowers because they die."

Whichever way one chooses to look at it, to say that the man born Lee Alexander McQueen — his friends call him Lee — has come quite some way in the past 15 years would be an understatement. His business started life in a small basement in Hoxton, an area of London as well-known for its artists as it was for cheap rent. McQueen lived and worked in this tiny space, and although the handful of people who started with him back then are still part of his team to this day, he is now one of very few British designers who head up their own globally recognized brand.

"They protect the name and what it stands for," McQueen says of the close-knit circle of collaborators that includes stylist Katy England. (England is married to Primal Scream's Bobby Gillespie.) "They know how it started and understand that it's about passion and integrity. You have to build up a relationship and trust the people you are working with. Any success is not just because of me. We've all made it the success it is and the show the show of the season, every season, because we know who we are."

For Spring 1999, there was Shalom Harlow's graceful performance as the dying swan, all while being sprayed with primary-color paint by a pair of particularly menacing robots. Next came a monolithic snowstorm peopled by models ice-skating in fur-trimmed brocades. For Spring 2004, the designer collaborated with Michael Clark, who choreographed and performed in a darkly glamorous dance marathon. Then, last year, while fashion houses were busy dropping Kate Moss from their campaigns like a proverbial hotcake, there was her larger-than-life-size, ghostly holographic image floating above McQueen's audience from on high.

"I used to do it to shock people," McQueen says in explanation, "to provoke a reaction, but now I just do it for myself. The shows always reflect where I am emotionally in my own life."

"There is a dark side," England explains. "But there is also a truly romantic side. I think Lee's such a romantic character and he has these dreams. I think it's like him looking for love, isn't it?"

The designer's collections, then as now, are intensely autobiographical, drawing on his ancestry as well as reflecting his personal feelings at any given time. The 1995 Highland Rape collection, for example, which shot the designer to fame, was blatantly inspired by his Scottish forefathers, the bloody 18th-century Battle of Culloden in particular.

Today, at 38, McQueen insists, "You have to suppress your ego. I like the concept of dressing people. I used to not care whether people bought the clothes or not, but I kind of like it now. I wouldn't label that commercialism; it's more like I do this work because I want people to wear it."

The designer's rise to global recognition has not been without its difficulties. It is well-known that when, in 1996, McQueen, the son of a London taxi driver, was appointed creative director at Givenchy, a storm of controversy ensued. True to his young and outspoken form, McQueen made no secret of the problems he had working there. Today, he views the experience more pragmatically. "I learned a lot from the atelier, but, you know what, when I was in Paris I tried to mold in with this concept of couture and this hierarchy, but it's just not me. I can't play that game. I think it looks stupid when designers play these bourgeois characters. At the end of the day, I'm left with the real me. What you see is what you get."

And that person is, of course, as gifted, refined, and sensitive as he can be childish, arrogant, and blunt. "I came to terms with not fitting in a long time ago," McQueen says. "I never really fitted in. I don't want to fit in. And now people are buying into that."

Lee is quite a closed shop," says England, one of the designer's closest friends, who, along with Daphne Guinness and Phillipa Horan, is featured in this portfolio. The jeweler Shaun Leane and Annabelle Neilson also form part of his inner circle. "He's a private person, and there are only very few people he's prepared to listen to and trust. Yes, he does isolate himself; he does cut himself off. It's a huge pressure when you're constantly having to meet new people, go for dinners, be interviewed, have your photograph taken. You're putting yourself on the line, you're having to expose your personal details, and I don't think he wants to do that anymore. Why should he?"

In December 2000, McQueen sold a 51 percent stake of his business to the Gucci Group. "It's a corporate world, but it's not a compromise," the designer argues. "I'm given completely free rein. And in the end it doesn't matter where the money comes from as long as the product is good."

And the product, now more than ever, is all-important.

"I care about my work," McQueen says. "There are only a handful of designers that influence other designers, and I have to keep one step ahead of the game. As a designer, you've always got to push yourself forward; you've always got to keep up with the trends or make your own trends. That's what I do."

It seems not insignificant that McQueen was one of just a few big-name designers showing in Paris who didn't have Janet Jackson in his front row this past season. "I can't get sucked into that celebrity thing, because I think it's just crass," the designer says. "I work with people I admire and respect. It's never because of who they are. It's not about celebrity. That would show a lack of respect for the work, for everyone working on the shows, because when the pictures come out it's all about who's in the front row. What you see in the work is the person himself. And my heart is in my work."

More than anything else, McQueen says, "I'm interested in designing for posterity. People who buy McQueen are going to hand the clothes down to their children, and that's very rare today."

The discreet opulence and timeless beauty of the current collection in particular is perhaps explained by the fact that McQueen is now a more reserved figure than he once was, as driven as ever but more quietly introspective nonetheless. "People always ask me why I don't stick around after the show, but stick around for what?" he wonders. "After the last show, I went back to the hotel and watched a film. I never go to my after-show party. I've been a rock kid. I've done all that madness. Things change. I know what kind of world I work in, and I find the social and political side of it incredibly stressful. I'm now in a position where I don't have to play the game, and I choose not to." Instead, says McQueen: "I visit. I don't stay."



 “I know what I want to wear. I don’t want to stand out, wearing something that is asymmetric, and covered in dandelions,”


post #837 of 903
Originally Posted by KingJulien View Post

Sipang, are there any google tricks when searching for information on designers to eliminate the 400 pages of shitty web shops? Fuck that's annoying.

No tricks !

* * *

I walked right up to it and stood on top of this circular platform. And as soon as I gained my footing, the circular platform started a slow, steady rotation. And it was almost like the mechanical robots were stretching and moving their parts after an extended period of slumber. And as they sort of gained consciousness, they recognized that there was another presence amongst them, and that was myself.
And at some point, the curiosity switched, and it became slightly more aggressive and frenetic and engaged on their part. And an agenda became solidified somehow. And my relationship with them shifted at that moment because I started to lose control over my own experience, and they were taking over. So they began to spray and paint and create this futuristic design on this very simple dress.
And when they were finished, they sort of receded and I walked, almost staggered, up to the audience and splayed myself in front of them with complete abandon and surrender.
It almost became this like aggressive sexual experience in some way. And I think that this moment really encapsulates, in a way, how Alexander related to—at least at this particular moment—related to creation. Is that all of creation? Is that the act of a human being being created, the sexual act? Is it the act of, you know, the Big Bang, if you will, that violence and that chaos and that surrender that takes place?
Alexander and I didn’t have any conversation directly related to this particular piece and to creating this moment within his show. I like to think that he wanted to interfere as little as possible and allow me to have the most genuine, spontaneous experience as possible.

-Shalom Harlow

post #838 of 903
Nah, bro. his menswear was just not that great.
post #839 of 903
I gotta say... I'm glad we had this McQueen derailing, I'm kinda wowed; I remembered really liking spring 1999 and browsing some collections but that's about it. Rediscovering collections through those vids is awesome.

Anyway, a quick interlude.

Edited by sipang - 3/8/12 at 7:40pm
post #840 of 903


Originally Posted by Desi View Post

Nah, bro. his menswear was just not that great.

I didn't say it was good, I actually meant the opposite - it wasn't good because what worked for him so well with women's stuff didn't work at all for men.

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