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Yohji, Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love The Looser Fit (Yohji Yamamoto Thread) - Page 120

post #1786 of 5769
Quote:
Originally Posted by asobu View Post

^lol, yeah, the 6.1 show? I think we had an interview with one of the other models up earlier in this thread, mentioning that incident I believe.
There were surely reworks of the pour homme too, some of those handstitched pieces and coats with pleats at the bottom were pretty much straight out of the A/W 08 homme show. Definitely different from the "regular"/commercial Y's lines that season, where I liked some of the women looks quite a bit but didn't care much for the men's (with notable exceptions)
Remind me, wasn't the funds from the auction donated to some cause as well?


It was a scholarship fund for Chinese design students to study in Japan. Yohji did a good job of trying to improve Sino-Japanese ties, especially given his family background. Coincidentally my uncle was at that show in Beijing as a representative of the Ministry of Culture.
post #1787 of 5769
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hendrix View Post

— Honoré de Balzac
I would rather be the boor, the rich man or the fool than the elegant man.
Could post this in RFT but i think it's quite applicable here and more likely to get decent discussion

This makes me think a lot about Yohji's clothing actually (which is why I guess you posted it here, heh). Yohji's clothes are indeed made for the boor, the rich man or the fool. Wool gabardine pants and jackets for the boor who just covers/wraps himself in black, not caring about trends or the particulars of the place he is going (wedding? funeral? party? the grocery store?); the louder pieces he seems to do every collection with tags, text, embroidery, and more recently strings and ropes that can be adjusted as the wearer wills it, not to mention hats with which the rich man or the fool can adorn themselves. And the imagery of the fool is even crystallized in the form of someone like Charlie Chaplin's onscreen persona whose aesthetic definitely informs Yohji's for sure. I would be interested in hearing about ideas for what exactly constitutes just "getting dressed" means though. Does it reference the archetypal MC man? All hidden details and exacting standards that blends into the crowd and is only noticed by others in the know (like in Tinker Tailor Soldier)? Or is it referring to the archetypal male who just throws on whatever they have in their closet apparently not caring about clothing at all?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arche View Post

Well, I just gave in to the billowing, siren-call of Yohji and purchased another item, this time the coat below. I was thinking about getting a simple black gabardine suit, either mainline or Y's, depending on what deals I could find (I'm so glad I discovered the Japanese auction sites, thanks to this thread!). However, in the end I decided that since it will be a while before I can afford to build up a Yohji wardrobe, at this point it makes sense to purchase some more unusual, distinctive show pieces, rather than more straightforward ones. I really like the antique, slightly 19th century look of this, with its hint of a smoking jacket.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
350x495px-LL-a40313c5_Jacket.jpeg

My other Yohji jacket just arrived (the one with the white tabs on the lapes I posted earlier), but either I didn't pay enough attention to the measurements, or they were a bit inaccurate, because it definitely fits smaller than I'd like. Annoying, because it's a lovely jacket. With those white accents, it goes brilliantly with a white shirt. I'll post some fit pics when I can. I'm still not decided if it works. It fits much more like a traditional blazer, even a bit on the short side at bottom, thought the sleeves are perfect. Assuming the measurements the seller gave are accurate, the coat above should fit more appropriately oversized. 

Good buy on that coat! Shame about the first one you picked up though. You should take a pic like you said anyway, even if it fits more traditionally, it may have a place in your burgeoning wardrobe biggrin.gif.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catastrophes View Post

the pic reminds me of a backstage fight yohji had with john lurie 20 years ago.

the pieces on the beijing runway done under the name of Y's were all original and oneoffs meant to be sold at that auction that they held a few days later.

sort of variations of the F/W 08 YY femme pieces.

he wanted to use yagou / 屋号 ( that is Y's ) for his "main" line show, which he had not been able to back in paris. yagou sounds way cooler for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asobu View Post

^lol, yeah, the 6.1 show? I think we had an interview with one of the other models up earlier in this thread, mentioning that incident I believe.
There were surely reworks of the pour homme too, some of those handstitched pieces and coats with pleats at the bottom were pretty much straight out of the A/W 08 homme show. Definitely different from the "regular"/commercial Y's lines that season, where I liked some of the women looks quite a bit but didn't care much for the men's (with notable exceptions)
Remind me, wasn't the funds from the auction donated to some cause as well?

Finally watched the Y's videos and really liked all of them to be honest! The Beijing one in particular was really cool. The opening look was so dramatic with the lights slowly coming on and that swathe of gabardine echoing the darkness that came before. Amazing.

I have always felt that Y's was a bit redundant in terms of its remit. Beautiful clothing did come out of the line for sure and since it is slightly cheaper than mainline Yohji it could act as a good starting point for people new to the brand. However, it is not THAT much cheaper than Yohji mainline stuff to make it hit enough customers in my opinion. The fact that they closed down the men's part of it made a lot of sense to me. For women, I have just discovered how much more expensive YY Femme is compared to Homme so the pricing of Y's for women makes way more sense to me, lol. I would have preferred it if Y's was made more obvious as a kind of capsule collection or special collection that showed only once a year. Kind of what Jan-Jan Van Essche does with his own clothing line. Providing standard Yohji-style clothing for the entire year round at a lower price point and a good way for designers working with Yohji to stretch their muscles and handle a full collection. So each year it can be a different designer - Y's by Limi Yamamoto or Y's by Suzuki etc. Could even get famous guest designers to chip in. I am sure a Y's by Vivienne Westwood would be a big hit. Something like that I feel would have provided the line with more pulling power on both the men's and women's sides as well as provide more of a market for something like CS back in the day. It could also be used for things like that Beijing show, special events with no conflict. Speaking of which Yagou does sound pretty damn cool. What does it mean? My kanji knowledge is still pitiful haha.
post #1788 of 5769

I feel like that Balzac quote is being a little misunderstood and is probably more in line with the opinions I have read in this thread. The boor is simply a boor. I find it hard to believe that anyone in this thread would proclaim themselves a boor, for the simple fact that we are writing about quite expensive, exsquisite clothing on a forum, which at it's most basic level is a discussion place for aesthetics of clothing. A boor by definition would never have even thought about clothing in any meaningful way. The rich man adorning himself is the triumph of "$tyle" over substance and likely represents a lack of taste due to overwrought extravagances and the desire to show off one's worth. Conversely, the fool attempts to create substance by creating a facade using clothing as his medium, without realising that clothing cannot hide the deficiencies of character and/or personality. In regards to the elegant man "just getting dressed", I believe that effortlessness and nonchalance are being circumscribed here and not some "MC Archetype". I remember reading somewhere in this thread how someone (was it Ivwri or Asobu?) said that he had begun to dress himself according to feeling without looking in the mirror or something to that affect, in short "just getting dressed". I think elegance presupposes a certain level of taste, which is then also combined into the realisation that clothes alone do not "make the man" with the end result being that, ideally, one simply gets dressed.

post #1789 of 5769
Thread Starter 
Hmm, that is interesting and a completely different take on the way I read it. You're in a better place to interpret it though as I don't know the original context of the quote. I read it more as if someone who was themselves a boor had written it with his definition of "boor" or "fool" being at best suspect.

The way I saw it was that in essence I doubt Yohji would describe himself as an "elegant man" so to speak. I understod it as implying that one is polished and without rough edges. Yohji himself has described himself in less than gracious terms loads of times, saying he is lazy or yearning to shirk responsibility etc. And his clothing can look like vagabond clothing, being suited to the wanderer and the ronin. The man who is not interested in following the roles society has laid out for him and the rules he must follow for his dress. What would be considered a boor or a fool by society would be the kind of person Yohji would probably be interested in. The outcasts so to speak. They wear suits and have untucked shirts, colored ribbons or scarves hanging out of holes in their jackets, roam about with Romany people, play guitars on the side of the road and have oversized clothing that pool at their feet over hardwearing worker's boots.

With Balzac being described as "a hermit and a vagrant" the quote turns out to be probably more in line with what you just wrote and seems to make him a Yohji man by definition biggrin.gif

The statement about dressing without needing a mirror was made by wireartists by the way who has now reached the optimum level of the path of Yohji. Absolute zen, hehe.

Back to Hendrix posting this though I am now curious which tack he took when reading the quote.
post #1790 of 5769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivwri View Post

The statement about dressing without needing a mirror was made by wireartists by the way who has now reached the optimum level of the path of Yohji. Absolute zen, hehe.

Wire is the Yohji Master, the Jedi, Yoda Yamamoto needs to get him to walk his Runway :)

post #1791 of 5769
regarding wire and the art i mentioned him doing a couple of pages ago, here is what he did whilst down under:
pictures spoilered (Click to show)

tumblr_m6k8y3BsUC1qby68xo4_1280.jpg

tumblr_m6k8y3BsUC1qby68xo1_1280.jpg

tumblr_m6k8y3BsUC1qby68xo2_1280.jpg

forgot to add that these arent my own pictures, i got them from the federation square (where this was) tumblr http://squaredproduce.tumblr.com/

Edited by Guy Burgess - 7/5/12 at 4:20am
post #1792 of 5769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auburn View Post

I feel like that Balzac quote is being a little misunderstood and is probably more in line with the opinions I have read in this thread. The boor is simply a boor. I find it hard to believe that anyone in this thread would proclaim themselves a boor, for the simple fact that we are writing about quite expensive, exsquisite clothing on a forum, which at it's most basic level is a discussion place for aesthetics of clothing. A boor by definition would never have even thought about clothing in any meaningful way. The rich man adorning himself is the triumph of "$tyle" over substance and likely represents a lack of taste due to overwrought extravagances and the desire to show off one's worth. Conversely, the fool attempts to create substance by creating a facade using clothing as his medium, without realising that clothing cannot hide the deficiencies of character and/or personality. In regards to the elegant man "just getting dressed", I believe that effortlessness and nonchalance are being circumscribed here and not some "MC Archetype". I remember reading somewhere in this thread how someone (was it Ivwri or Asobu?) said that he had begun to dress himself according to feeling without looking in the mirror or something to that affect, in short "just getting dressed". I think elegance presupposes a certain level of taste, which is then also combined into the realisation that clothes alone do not "make the man" with the end result being that, ideally, one simply gets dressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivwri View Post

Back to Hendrix posting this though I am now curious which tack he took when reading the quote.

Auburn that's a nice analysis.

To be honest I was more quoting an MC source than the original source, which I am not familiar with. Actually even the source that I picked the quote from probably has a better understanding than I gave credit!


More likely my misinterpretation!


I think this is a good example of how things get taken out of context. Similar to the YSL "fashions fade, style is eternal" has more meaning when talking about personal style but often gets misquoted.

There's a high probability the quote will do the rounds on tumblr and everyone will give the same out-of-context analysis as myself! the perils of the interweb.
post #1793 of 5769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auburn View Post

remember reading somewhere in this thread how someone (was it Ivwri or Asobu?) said that he had begun to dress himself according to feeling without looking in the mirror or something to that affect, in short "just getting dressed".

On this:

I have been dressing a bit more on instinct lately, and it leaves me wearing certain items that I know I could easily switch for something more appropriate, but I want to keep how they are for some inexplicable reason (boredom?). Like if I were to post a WAYWT, I know someone would point to it as being slightly out of place, but I feel like I kinda need it to be a bit out of place so that I know it's still me.
post #1794 of 5769
Thread Starter 
Wow, that's amazing. What kind of books were they and were they all the same book? That must have taken a while to do would love to hear more about it. Maybe I will harass wire via email to post on here instead of just lurking tongue.gif.

@Hendrix I see why you would look at it the way I take it you did considering where you got it from! Interestingly enough, it can also be used to show how different people can wear the same outfit and give off completely different vibes from each other, all because of their intentions behind wearing the outfit coming through in little details. The thing I have noticed about Yohji's clothing is that I think it innately discourages a certain type of wearer from trying it on. It's why whenever the term "Yohji hype" or words to that effect show up on the forum I wonder where they get the idea from. Yohji does have well-deserved hype as a designer, but for that to translate into people buying his clothes to be part of some "hype train" is quite frankly pretty difficult for me to imagine.

His clothes already come with a context of their own, and if you don't synch with that, then I don't think they will be attractive at all.

I also think that's probably why at the end of the day the stereotypical Yohji fit should be described as "anti-fit". Not just because it doesn't fall into accepted Western notions of how clothing should fit, but also because that lack of too much thought put into wearing the clothing will be reflected in the individual clothing choices made. Shoes that may not be the perfect match, a t-shirt that would be better off replaced with one with a looser neck, pants that don't break perfectly etc. When the fit is looked at out of context it looks off and may even denote a lack of style. But when looked at in context (the tee might be so damned comfortable, the shoes might be the ones you wear whenever you go for presentations as a lucky pair of shoes, the badge on the jacket lapel a gift from your significant other etc.) it takes on a new life of its own.

EDIT - Funny how Hendrix and I seemed to dovetail into a similar statement. Yeah I completely understand what you mean by wearing items that you know will be considered sub-optimal but you wear them anyway because they are more you.
Edited by Ivwri - 7/5/12 at 3:58am
post #1795 of 5769
a few random pics of shorter guys in Yohji. if anyone has other good examples please post!

480480

Syed of Dapper Kid (not sure of his height, but he doesn't seem particularly tall and Yohji looks good on him)
573

And of course Yohji himself
480
post #1796 of 5769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivwri View Post

 Speaking of which Yagou does sound pretty damn cool. What does it mean?  

ya-gou =  house name or team name.  ( ya / 屋 is house or something like roof, umbrella. gou / 号 is sort of a suffix that indicates the word placed just before it is a name )

maybe it feels most natural to use yagou instead of his own name.

 

 

typical look of yagou

c0134029_14463728.jpg

 

 

 

his yagou

ys.bmp

post #1797 of 5769
this one looks quite nice for a sz2
wool with cupro lining

would get but i want the yohji volume so need a 3 heh

527

http://re-porter.ca/clothing/button-back-jacket/
post #1798 of 5769
Quote:
Originally Posted by catastrophes View Post

ya-gou =  house name or team name.  ( ya / 屋 is house or something like roof, umbrella. gou / 号 is sort of a suffix that indicates the word placed just before it is a name )
maybe it feels most natural to use yagou instead of his own name.

with regard to using his own name, Tadashi Kubo just menioned in regards to the "for sale" jacket he wore at the paris show: "名前がブランドの彼はつねづね自分が売り物のようだとボヤいていて、ジャケットにfor saleとnot for saleをつくりました。冗談でね。" I guess that ties in a bit with what you mentioned, or am I completely missing the point here? I wouldn't trust my japanese, hehe
post #1799 of 5769
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

this one looks quite nice for a sz2
wool with cupro lining
would get but i want the yohji volume so need a 3 heh
527
http://re-porter.ca/clothing/button-back-jacket/

You need to get it man, or someone should snatch it. YYPH AW07 Look 38 I believe, a awesome piece. Am iI right Asobu? One of the best AW collections IMO:)
post #1800 of 5769
shah, that piece looks good slim. check parker's recent photo where he wears something similar up top (cubism jacket ?) paired with hakamas. looked awesome icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
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