Clothing fit of yesteryear

In the old days either your mother / wife fixed things like hemming your pants or you paid a fairly low amount to have it done. Basically every house had it's own seamstress.

Sales people? Money. When I was a kid many shops had adults who had been working their whole adults lives in that business. Today low end shops are more likely to have teenagers. Even mid level shops are going to have staff that aren't committed to a career in retail.

I highly suspect this. The bottom line is that mass produced, off-the-rack, label stamped clothes were just not the norm - or even available - then. And, even when they were, tailoring, either at home or local, was pervasive. People just did not go into the Polo outlet, buy a shirt, and then wear it as-is everywhere. And the environment reinforced this; since everyone else going to work looked sharp, you wanted to as well. Old footage/pics literally show kids begging on the streets in suits!

Also note that we're talking movies here, pre-widespread or any TV/internet/cell phone/etc. Since film was an expensive proposition - not only produce, but also distribute to viewers primarily in movie houses - everything you're seeing was created with high-end content, clothes included.

In the end, you're literally looking at a different world - not just time. It just didn't function like today's does.

I didn't buy suits in the 50s, but I can imagine the fit was the result of more uniformed physique back then. Nowadays people are bulging at the weirdest places, myself included. Since I started my own business I put on some weight in the midsection and buying OTR trousers became a real chore - my waist went from 36 to 40, but my legs remained at the 36 level. The best I could do was to go with 38 and let them out, but even then tapering was needed more often than not. On the plus side - OTR 44R jackets fit me like a glove :)

 

As far as SA, back then it seems they were compensated much better. Working at a department store seems to have been a lower-middle class occupation. And I agree with you about fashion labels, a good fitting suit is not enough today. One can find perfect examples at this forum alone - it seems most members would compliment you on a well-fitting suit, but would turn 180 degrees if you told them it's a no-name OTR you picked up from a department store

 

Lol, my first thought when I saw the photo of the boy with his trouser legs so short was "He looks like an urchin"

 

In all fairness, those kids didn't beg in suits, just pants and jackets.

18-ounce cloth that was finished like cardboard.

There's a lot of things at play here.

Firstly, I think the argument that tailors and tailoring was far more available to the general public than it is today. I now in Brooklyn, these places tend to be dry cleaners that also do alterations, and the communication between client and tailor in these mostly Chinese run businesses (at least in my neck of the woods) is pretty poor. So people don't bother.

We also live in a brand obsessed world, and believe it or not, outside of SF, brands are not a big part of the American suit buying psyche. I see this when I see kids come to their graduation with the arm tag still on their suit to show its brand (whether its decent or not).

I'm not sure how much people's shapes have changed since the 50's, them were some pretty unhealthy times, though maybe we do eat more "cheap" food like McDs today. I guess it was eaten back then too, but it was simply a cheeseburger and fries, not these mammoth meals they make today for $5.

Lastly I also think the "slim fit" craze has something to do with it as well. If we look at the 90's (as someone mentioned before) the suits tended to be baggier. For me its easier to have a collar rest on the back of your neck if the suit is too big as opposed to the opposite.

I love thinking about stuff like this, I come from a long line of tailors (including my grandmother who could fix/hem/make just about anything), and I love thinkning about how their lives were different sartorially from mine, and what they would think if they ever saw what I wear.

While I agree with Nicola's hypothesis when it comes to earning and a dedication to clothes, I think you also might be looking at it from a very unique and jaded angle.

As people who have over 1,000 posts on a forum dedicated to the art and craft of style we see things slightly differently. If I had a dollar for every time someone on here scoffed when and SA didn't know who made a particular house label English shoe or was appalled when an SA dared try to fit them a size up I would be a very wealthy man.

You see 99% of the SAs out there are still FAR more knowledgeable on clothes, fit and style than Joe Blow coming in off the street. As "students" of style we will sit back and wallow in the misery that is their advice or critique the suits that they wear to work, but at the end of the day we are in the vast, vast minority of people.

While I will admit that many, if not most, SAs are less skilled and knowledgeable than they were when everyone wore a suit every waking hour, you cannot blame them. As styles change and as our culture changes the retailers will adapt. There is no point in BB hiring a master tailor from to sell, design, or tailor their garments because, at the end of the day, it's only guys like us that will care or see the virtue in the detailing. Everyone else will scoff at the price and immediately move to the sales rack.

And here is where I think the disconnect comes. Aside from the obvious shift in the formality of the world's style in the past 20-30 years (of which there are a multitude of theories to justify), I think it is the "thriftiness" of the consumer that has hurt quality and attention to detail.

In older generations, as you stated, a man had a tailor. The price was the price and you could either afford it or you couldn't. Sure even the cheaper things were better made than they are today, but you didn't have a generation (like the iGent) that demanded the highest quality possible at the lowest possible prices. My father never would have dreamed of owning Brioni at my age because it simply was not available at his price point. Therefore he would start at a lower level, work his way up through tailored garments and eventually realize, once he had the money, why his purchase was justified.

Today there is no evolution and there is no experience. You routinely (here and other places) read of high school kids buying Kiton or knowing intimate details of MTM/bespoke. This is unprecedented. In the past only the super wealthy or sons of tailors would have this knowledge. While on the surface we applaud this eagerness to learn, the reality is that 99% of high school kids (or college kids, or even guys in their 20s) have no business affording this caliber of clothing. Thus, they demand, through their purchasing habits, that prices fall. As prices fall retailers begin cutting corners. As corners get cut quality declines and the first place this is evident is in the guy selling you your suit.

Like it or not this monster has been created by the consumer. And while many on SF will sit upon their golden throne and judge the slovenly masses, many of us are the biggest source of the problem.

I agree with this. It seems to me that a lot of people running the industry today, whoever they are, do not know how things are supposed to fit. I base this on the fact that many of the photo spreads I see from designers, where they control the model they want, can tailor and adjust the garments endlessly to get the perfect fit that they want to see, etc., feature clothes that just don't fit. I hate to pick on this one but I just remembered it as an example:

http://www.valetmag.com/style/profiles-features/2011/three-questions-eunice-lee-111411.php

And this is a designer being featured in a respected online publication. But the fit on this jacket is just all kinds of bad.

For SAs, I think at most places they are more knowledgeable than your typical dude on the street, but maybe less so than they were in years past. This is because, as discussed in a couple of threads before, success as an SA seems to be more based on your selling ability - personal interaction with the client, demeanor, whatever - than knowledge about the products you are selling.

I disagree with a few points:

 

 

people used to be much more thrifty back then, much, much more thrifty. People did not worship labels like they do now and there is no way an average man would've justified the price difference between 100S and 150S, ever.

 

 

 

This is still true. High school kids buying $2K+ suits without holding a job still means that they are quite wealthy.

 

An experience has been burnt in my mind forever, quite telling of what's yet to come - While we were in line at the movie theater once I was in a suit and an overcoat. A little girl (7-8 years old?) next to us in line turned over to me, her eyes wide open, and in all honesty asked me "Why are you wearing this?" The poor thing couldn't wrap her mind around a guy in a suit at the theater.

What was your reply (if any)?