new ties -- passagio

So, if Mr. Cappelli, Mr. Maresco, C&A's tailor and anyone else who is referenced are to be believed, that will only occur if they register on SF and post. If they did, I would expect the next post after theirs would be one calling them socks. As I have stated, I have a dozen PC ties. Nice fabric, some with excellent construction others with issues. I don't consider myself to have been scammed . However, from a customer service perspective I have issues with the rolling definition of where, when and how much inkjet printing is used. If one cannot accurately and consistently tell you why they do what they do it raises questions. We have seen 100% vintage be downgraded to 90% but with the reproductions being created by the original mills in the same traditional hand printed way or woven as they were almost a century ago to vintage inkjet printed fabrics to statements that inkjet a can be of equal or better quality than screened prints.

We have had experts state what they believe inkjet prints look like. We have seen - in my opinion - confusion over English contemporary prints being portrayed as vintage Italian ones.

The inconsistencies alone and failure to address valid questions rather than accusations breeds more questions.

Frankly, I would assume that one could create high quality inkjet printed silks that recreate lost patterns and that would be fine. However, explaining this after the fact only after the issue is brought up by others is interesting.

The high quality inkjet silk prints also blows the feel test out of the water, no?

Might be easier to discuss our opinions on whether climate change exists



gsugsu said:

......... Frankly, I would assume that one could create high quality inkjet printed silks that recreate lost patterns and that would be fine.

Click to expand...

this is done
all the time
especially in
italy
many
pocketsquares
are like that

companies liek
(h)adamley
mantero
ratti
canepa
have huge
archives of
thier patterns
which can be consulted
and recreated
in inkjet

gsugsu said:

............ The high quality inkjet silk prints also blows the feel test out of the water, no?

Click to expand...

'feel test'
?

teh mythical
difference in
handle between
a modern
and 'vintage'
silk
?
joking right
?

it all depends
on teh quality
of silk
and finishing
but it is pure
bs
you can tell
by touch


i was speaking
to the person in charge
of printing in one
of england's largest
silk printing concerns
they mentioned
how italy was much
moar advanced
in the use and
deployment of
inkjet printers
vs engand

one moar thing
screening on a
white silk
(not dyed teh
background colour)
is done......
......
usually when teh
background is
white
eg:



^
yes it is
teh 'vintage'
but not exaggerated
claims on
its shoulders

Thanks for that T4. The reference to the "feel test" was in response to someone who posted in the other thread that you could tell the difference between inkjet & screen print just by feel. I am dubious of that given if you start with high quality silk, and whether it is vintage or not, what difference can be felt?



gsugsu said:

......I am dubious of that given if you start with high quality silk, and whether it is vintage or not, what difference can be felt?

Click to expand...

i would
be dubious too
especially with
teh newer stuff

funny thing
i heard about
teh early inkjet
prints
(this from
one ex partner
of a famous
neapolitan
rtw tailoring
house)
when this
tailoring house
started offering
inkjet printed ties
way back when
(or so many years
on its shoulder)
when it would
get wet
the colours would
change.....
customers would
ask why....
and the tailoring
house said...
lol...
it is a vintage
effect
lol
lolz
lawlz



dieworkwear said:

...... And while I know people already know this, it might be worth stating that two matching patterns doesn't necessarily mean something. Patterns are duplicated from archives all the time.......

Click to expand...

if teh archival patterns
are exactly teh
same
stroke for
stroke
it is
then most likly
fromteh
same printers
whose archive
it came from

So if it resembles an Adamley print stroke for strike, as you say, it is most likely from them or whoever owns the archive

^
usually true

however
with teh advent
of hi res scanners
i'm sure other
companies have
been scanning
and copying

A bit like this:

Vintage- Made in England



Modern Reproduction- Made in Italy



jrd617 said:

Who does Sam Hober's printed maccelfield silk? Is it in house?

Was going to use my Hober ties as a comparison, but the standard Hober construction doesn't allow me to see the "back" of the silk to see if it's white.

Doubt it's inkjette

Click to expand...

Our Macclesfield prints are hand screened in Macclesfield, England by David Evans/Adamley. Note some say David Evans has disappeared but I can tell you that we have received invoices from them within the last 10 years... So maybe the company ghost is still printing and invoicing.

And I was told that when Silk Industries bought Adamley and David Evans they were merged and only the physical David Evans location was closed down. Staff, art etc mostly simply moved, so not much was lost. Now they are part of a different company and they have recently started to offer inkjet prints but we have not made an inkjet order.

I love the colors of their screened prints.

At the moment we do not have time to print or weave but we have lots of experience doing yarn reeled,dyed woven silks by hand. Many of those silks are so perfectly - mirror - dark on the back that you can easily use either side. But these silks have woven designs - not printed.

I have never seem a printed silk like this were you can use the back.



LA Guy said:

Everyone in this thread: if this conversation becomes a shouting match, or a positive feedback loop of the same points over and over again, I wll shut it down.  As I've said before, my interest is in having the forum community engaged in a variety of interesting conversations, rather than focused around one "controversy" that will probably never be resolved to anyone's satisfaction.  My advice to not jeopardize this thread would be to have your say, and then leave it at that.  Once you've made your point, there is no gain to be had to restating it ad nauseum.  That goes for everyone.

One thing that has never been allowed, and that we will not allow here, is for one member to accuse another member of actual criminal conduct.  Please edit your posts accordingly, or I will have to delete them in their entirety.

Thanks,

Fok.

Click to expand...

@LA Guy, I understand your point regarding community decorum and keeping things civil - I have attempted to keep my posts as clear and factual as possible on the Passaggio Cravatte thread and have even come to Gianni's defense when things became personal from other members. You are stuck in an unenviable position and it is a very difficult balancing act.

However, I am one of the few current customers that are caught in limbo between payment and delivery of ties when this controversy erupted. And as I have outlined in the Passaggio Cravatte affiliate thread, Gianni has definitely not delivered anything to me and has stolen my money that I paid him. In fact, I have emailed him once a day for the past week to try to reach a resolution and he has NOT responded to me even once. There has to be some recourse for SF users - it affirmatively is a significant issue that requires the forum's attention when an affiliate vendor lies about the provenance of his fabrics to extract a premium, then absconds with a SF user's money, and never responds to any communication to reach some resolution.

And I am happy to forward all my emails to him that have gone unanswered to prove my point - it really is unacceptable behavior and what is especially infuriating is to see Gianni continue to post nonsense and pics of silks without giving a customer the common courtesy of responding to repeated emails reaching resolution. He was prompt enough when convincing me to send him money via wire transfer but now that he has my money and the controversy erupted he is ignoring me. I have never had this happen to me and I don't want anyone else to suffer the same fate.



CHRK33 said:

@LA Guy, I understand your point regarding community decorum and keeping things civil - I have attempted to keep my posts as clear and factual as possible on the Passaggio Cravatte thread and have even come to Gianni's defense when things became personal from other members. You are stuck in an unenviable position and it is a very difficult balancing act.

However, I am one of the few current customers that are caught in limbo between payment and delivery of ties when this controversy erupted. And as I have outlined in the Passaggio Cravatte affiliate thread, Gianni has definitely not delivered anything to me and has stolen my money that I paid him. In fact, I have emailed him once a day for the past week to try to reach a resolution and he has NOT responded to me even once. There has to be some recourse for SF users - it affirmatively is a significant issue that requires the forum's attention when an affiliate vendor lies about the provenance of his fabrics to extract a premium, then absconds with a SF user's money, and never responds to any communication to reach some resolution.

And I am happy to forward all my emails to him that have gone unanswered to prove my point - it really is unacceptable behavior and what is especially infuriating is to see Gianni continue to post nonsense and pics of silks without giving a customer the common courtesy of responding to repeated emails reaching resolution. He was prompt enough when convincing me to send him money via wire transfer but now that he has my money and the controversy erupted he is ignoring me. I have never had this happen to me and I don't want anyone else to suffer the same fate.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty certain that he has not stolen anything from you at this time. He has also not delivered the ties that you ordered as yet. It is my understanding that there is a chance that the fabric that you receive might not be what you were told when you purchased it, in which case you would have a valid claim of a bait and switch. At the same time, there is also the chance that you will receive exactly what you ordered.

I'd be interested in seeing the emails that went back and forth during the convincing you to wire him money stage. I says his as someone that initiated contact with him and inquired about the sales process. He wasn't pushy and his emails were,at times, less than the model of clarity.

anyone of the same mind that the custom initials on PC ties are inelegant and detract from the overall presentation of the ties?

Case in point:








then the different fabric for the blades, kind of questionable from an esthetic point of view:




oh, then the stained vintage thirst



finally, this little flub

Yes. Personally, that gives me more pause before buying at this price point than the current swirl of questions re vintage etc (about which I am unqualfied to offer an opinion and hence won't). I also find the fabrics, for my taste, are hit and miss. But heck, the ones I like, I really really like.

I did have one thought on the vintage debate... if you like old school retro-style silk / ties, why not just thrift actual old ties? Can anything be done to "freshen" or "refurbish" an older tie??

I honestly don't know why you would get a tie monogrammed in the first place. It's not like a shirt that can get mixed up at the dry cleaners.

And I agree that the monograms you quoted here don't do the ties any favours.

Before Gianni showed his bi-colour ties I always associated them with Hilfiger ties and the like. Certainly not something I would get. And I wonder whether it was really the standard 100 years ago...

Finally the tag. Surely a quality control issue. There is also an issue with the construction of some of my ties. Gianni tends to recommend 7 fold unlined for almost anything he offers. Although this is definately not the right construction for all the fabrics he is selling.

^
4 different patterns
of the same colourways
on one fabric
is commonly seen
when printers send
a colour blanket
to see different patterns
in teh same colours......

and look at teh patterns
at the borders
and edges
if it is screened/block
teh pattern should be
complete
not cut off....