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new ties -- passagio - Page 14

post #196 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsugsu View Post

It is cashmere

Really? A recent exchange with Capelli indicated to me that he doesn't use pure cashmere as it is too expensive. That said I might have misunderstood because I thought he meant that all of his ties on the web store "wool cashmere" section were blends but the tie I chose ended up being pure wool (still a lovely tie though, just not what I was expecting)
post #197 of 334
On the issue of vat am I mistaken here? Has anyone managed to get vat deducted from their Capelli or passaggio purchases?
post #198 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovlov View Post

Really? A recent exchange with Capelli indicated to me that he doesn't use pure cashmere as it is too expensive. That said I might have misunderstood because I thought he meant that all of his ties on the web store "wool cashmere" section were blends but the tie I chose ended up being pure wool (still a lovely tie though, just not what I was expecting)

Well, C&A can confirm. See the post below here. But since the fabric originally came from Cappelli, maybe it is a cashmere/wool mix

Quote:
Originally Posted by C&A View Post

Just before Christmas my first Passaggio tie arrived. Wearing it for the first time today. Made from a vintage cashmere. The ties are made in Naples in the old Marinella workroom. IMO workmanship and construction are very nice, comparable to my Cappelli's.

f8b01865.jpg
post #199 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovlov View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by C&A View Post

Another thing that always struck me a bit old was the turn around time. Generally 6 to 8 weeks. Whereas bespoke ties from other makers such as Cappelli normally take 1 or 2 weeks max.

I don't understand the turn around time either. I origibally presumed it was because he was running a very small local operation and was having trouble dealing with the huge influx of business after joining style forum. He has only been an AV for abouth 8 months I think. His actual websites is one of the least informative and least user friendly I have seen. I therefore thought he probably Only worked in and around Naples through word of mouth prior to this. How did you originally find him?
I'm actually not sure what the delay on construction is now. It certainly isn't a backlog if orders since I asked him more than 6 weeks ago if I could change one of my orders to a different fabric (actually the navy/orange remake that started this mess) and he told me that it was not possible because all of the ties were already cut and in production....

I'm totally at a loss about his production process TBH, especially looking at these posts by Gianni and @CHRK33 over the past month. The ties seem to hit the production stage quite soon after payment is made. Then it seems to take forever for the ties to get actually finished. It's like a black box really.


May 27th
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRK33 View Post

I, like a few others, aren't convinced by Gianni's explanation - maybe I continue to be naive, but I don't think Gianni acted maliciously, but I do think there have been valid questions raised regarding the provenance of his fabrics and that customers paid a premium for a product that was misleadingly advertised.

However, I thought my situation would be instructive to others as an additional data point regarding Gianni's business practices. I ordered 3 ties at the end of April before this controversy erupted and once all these allegations came to light, I reached out to Gianni at the beginning of last week seeking an explanation and letting him know that I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, but needed an explanation. As I have learned in my professional and personal life, where there is smoke, there is often fire. I asked him to provide an explanation for these allegations and further details regarding the provenance of his fabrics; otherwise, I was very concerned and did not feel comfortable proceeding and would just want a refund.

There was some delay in responding (which is understandable with the timezone difference), but Gianni's explanations never reached the provenance of the fabrics themselves. Gianni's explanations simply centered on counter-attacking the members that raised the issues. Gianni's fabrics and advertising has been questioned by members that I respect and are well known to be active and positive participants on SF, so I don't think his response is sufficient.

I was not convinced by Gianni's explanation and wanted to walk away from a troublesome situation and so I asked Gianni to refund me. My goal was to be as amicable as possible and obviously, I kept the situation initially between the two of us, so it could be resolved quietly. I received Gianni's response today and he simply refused to refund me for the ties that I haven't received - he said no one else has requested a refund and that he is not a crook. To this point, I really thought Gianni had been hard done by and that the internet lynch mob mentality might have been a bit harsh. So you can imagine my shock that Gianni would take this position and refuse to refund a customer for products he had yet to receive, when clearly there are unresolved allegations that Gianni has not dispelled. I have asked Gianni to reconsider his position, but I think it is really important that this data point is taken into account when considering whether you would want to deal with Passaggio Cravatte in the future.


May 27th
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gianni Cerutti View Post


I thank you sincerely FOR YOUR KIND REMARKS.





1) YOUR VINTAGE SILKS ARE CUT. AND ARE THE EMBROIDERED INITIALS. AND ONLY DOING BIRD I CANNOT GIVE THEM TO ANOTHER, AS YOU ASKED ME. YOU LOOK PROFESSIONAL? THEN THE REIMBURSEMENT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO OBTAIN.





THE WORK has already started. AND HAVE PASSED MORE THAN 20 DAYS FROM THE ORDER. AND THESE RULES ARE FOR EVERYONE. NOT JUST FOR YOU.



May 28th
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRK33 View Post

I placed my order with Gianni on April 29th - you were right that it was as late in April as possible. The controversy began raging on the thread soon thereafter, but I emailed Gianni asking for clarification for the first time on May 15th - sixteen days later (so I was wrong about the 12 days and apologize for that). I stated unequivocally and politely on that email that I was concerned about the provenance of his fabrics and that he hadn't responded to the SF allegations and that I would appreciate an explanation. If an explanation was not forthcoming or he didn't want to respond, I would not be comfortable proceeding and would appreciate a refund. So I laid out my fears and hoped he would respond. I didn't hear anything for three days, so I resent the email on the 18th, again on the 21st, again on the 23rd. I finally received a response on the 24th of May, which was inadequate and largely simply disparaged the members that raised the issue on SF. Gianni also mentioned nothing in this May 24th email that the ties were in progress - he affirmatively asked what would you like me to do. I replied quickly on the same day, the 24th, and told him I wasn't comfortable proceeding and gave him my Paypal address to refund me. He again ignored my email and I resent it again on the 27th. Gianni finally responded at 1:59pm yesterday the 27th and told me the ties had just been cut and he would not refund me and that I should trust him. I asked specifically in my email of the 24th regarding the embroidery and he said nothing about it. Later on the same day, the 27th, once I raised my concern publicly about Gianni's treatment of a customer (I thought it was a useful perspective), only a few hours later, Gianni says the ties have been embroidered, which is patently ludicrous and just am excuse to not provide a refund. Why would he embroider the ties in the few hours between our emails on the 27th? No logical person would do that.

Gianni was on notice since my first email of the 15th that I was concerned and was hesitant about proceeding - if he ignored my concerns and continued working on these ties, that seems illogical to me and I shouldn't be responsible for that. It's definitely not how I would do business.

So I hope that clarifies things and I apologize for being imprecise in my initial recounting - however, substantively, laying out the dates now seems even more damning to me. Pretty sad situation and a substantial loss for me.


June 14th
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gianni Cerutti View Post

Hello Dear,


thanks for your posts. Sorry if I have not answered before but I came back just now.


I decided to do it this way.


They were my clients ask me. And I have the highest regard for them.


I will finish the ties and I am sending you. How do a few years now.

So I have the chance to prove that my product is true. And you have the opportunity to understand the controversy whether to believe it or not.

But you have to be sincere and honest. And if you think that my ties are false and disgusting me the references. And I will reissue the command 100% of your bank.


Also because I've almost finished the ties. So I have to send you.


If you do not give me this opportunity is normal that I will do a bank transfer of 20%. This is because 80% of the work has been done.


Let me know and thank you for everything,


Gianni


June 14th
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRK33 View Post

Happy to respond publicly, as you won't respond to PMs or emails.

Gianni, you really have no credibility and as I said before, when you are paying a premium for a luxury product, you are buying the maker and the process as much as anything else. And I have had a horrible experience with you, which makes me not want to wear your ties.

It is laughable to think these ties are 80% completed, when over 1 month ago, when I first became aware of the controversy and I asked you for some reassurance regarding the provenance if your ties and you gave none, I told you I wanted to terminate our transaction. That was literally two and a half weeks from when I sent you the bank transfer and you told me the ties had just been cut. I told you to take whatever money you thought was fair then for your time and refund me the rest. Now over a month later, you are telling me the ties are 80% done - that is nonsensical that you would continue working on them when I explicitly had asked for a refund and didn't want to do business with you.

You essentially have me over the barrel and you refused to respond at all over the past few weeks. Now you concoct a new story and set of facts that suit you. How do you expect me to have any faith at all in you that you will refund me completely if I am unsatisfied with the ties if I ever receive them?

Like I said in my repeated emails, I want to put this ordeal behind me and not deal with your antics further. I told you to take what you thought was fair from my money and refund me the rest. Instead, you offer 20%, which is patently ludicrous and an insult - and you wonder why you have disgruntled customers who think you have cheated them.

And as I mentioned previously, I am not surprised that you have yet to respond to Mimo's constructive suggestions. Gianni, I would strongly suggest you do so.
post #200 of 334
Re VAT exemptions :

It is a lot of paperwork and associated cost to apply a VAT exception in Italy which in turn will cause almost certainly continuos tax inspections. I suspect that is what happened to NSM when they asked clients to confirm their address and details. There is no fraudulent approach in making all customers paying VAT as it is a tax that goes straight to the government not a way to earn more by the seller, so no need of silly accusation of tax fraud by the usual suspect.
post #201 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcodalondra View Post

Re VAT exemptions :

It is a lot of paperwork and associated cost to apply a VAT exception in Italy which in turn will cause almost certainly continuos tax inspections. I suspect that is what happened to NSM when they asked clients to confirm their address and details. There is no fraudulent approach in making all customers paying VAT as it is a tax that goes straight to the government not a way to earn more by the seller, so no need of silly accusation of tax fraud by the usual suspect.


I buy all without tax shipped to my SL in another european country as is the law so thanks for calling me silly and as usual talkingoffending and without knowledge.
post #202 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by SartodiNapoli View Post

I buy all without tax shipped to my SL in another european country as is the law so thanks for calling me silly and as usual talkingoffending and without knowledge.

You talk no-sense. To buy without paying IVA (Italian VAT) from another European country, you need to be a registered business with an equivalent VAT number in your own country, where this amount of unpaid VAT will need to be part of your accounts for payable VAT there. I do plenty of large business transactions intra and extra European Union. To export outside of the EU, without going through the customs offices at PORT (container shipping), it require a lot of paperwork as is up to the seller to prove that the goods were really sold outside the EU and therefore not VAT was payable to the Italian government, so it is easier and safer to just charge everyone for VAT. You are the one, as usual, accusing people to be fraudulent, everyone dealing with you and now even accusing people you never dealt with. Someone just exposed the Orazio Luciano story, that according to many of your emails, PM, and post on this site, he was your tailor and best friend...
post #203 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcodalondra View Post

 Someone just exposed the Orazio Luciano story, that according to many of your emails, PM, and post on this site, he was your tailor and best friend...

 

Do tell! 

post #204 of 334
I also sell without tax to my non european customers and only have to fill a single form.

The poster who expossed the story manipulated and lied deliberatelyas he has seen the ugly pics. Curiously i sell a lot of fabric to his tailoring house. I passed to answer as he sounded like drunk posting.

Orazio was a dissapointing history and the jacket even has poly lining and this has been agreed by Lomgombardi the Cupro reseller and Maresca who was angry to see that ugly jacket. Orazio won't ever be on a Spanish shop after this and his quality and customers service. An affiliate here returned a full seasonorder suits where no one was good. You as neapoletan has to know why he had to left Kiton decades ago and was blacklisted from all the locals, in fact his workers are extraeuropean but i can't writte it as would be an injure. Sadly can't upload pics with my mobile, he is looking for patternmakers but all run away from him.

On Kiton, all masters agreed was one of the most horrible things and with twisted out of pitch sleeves and made fun of me with reason for have gone him as they know him.

I will tell all this on my blog when i return home for vacation.

Edit as my mobile fails i can email the pics to any so he post them. Deserve to be on the crappy sartorial thread.
2 years fooling me while first he sent me a rtw 50R while i m a 48L and then instead of cutting a su misura one recutting an industrial jacke impossible o fit.

And what does this off topic has to be with the main discussion
?
Edited by SartodiNapoli - 6/15/14 at 5:16am
post #205 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post

Do tell! 
I believe it was early in this thread or in the PC AV thread where someone exposed how Orazio Luciano has been also accused by sarto of Fraudulent behaviours and how Orazio do not even want to hear the name of the guy again. Having been pestered first hand by emails and PM from Sarto (in his previous incarnations) accusing everyone of similar fraudulent behaviours against him, I am an easier believer
post #206 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by SartodiNapoli View Post


And what does this off topic has to be with the main discussion?

Simply addressing your easy trigger "everyone" is a scam/fraud .
Orazio was your best mate and chosen tailor. Now is a fraud....
post #207 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovlov View Post

Really? A recent exchange with Capelli indicated to me that he doesn't use pure cashmere as it is too expensive. That said I might have misunderstood because I thought he meant that all of his ties on the web store "wool cashmere" section were blends but the tie I chose ended up being pure wool (still a lovely tie though, just not what I was expecting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsugsu View Post

Well, C&A can confirm. See the post below here. But since the fabric originally came from Cappelli, maybe it is a cashmere/wool mix

It's a cashmere or wool/cashmere mix. You could check with him. He does sell cashmere AFAIK. Given the limited amount of fabric needed for I tie I couldn't imagine pure cashmere being prohibitive, but I could be wrong. Initially he had the PoW in three or four colourways. A redder version that T4Phage has, and more purplish version that Iammatt, the pink one quoted upthread and maybe one more.
post #208 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcodalondra View Post

You talk no-sense. To buy without paying IVA (Italian VAT) from another European country, you need to be a registered business with an equivalent VAT number in your own country, where this amount of unpaid VAT will need to be part of your accounts for payable VAT there. I do plenty of large business transactions intra and extra European Union. To export outside of the EU, without going through the customs offices at PORT (container shipping), it require a lot of paperwork as is up to the seller to prove that the goods were really sold outside the EU and therefore not VAT was payable to the Italian government, so it is easier and safer to just charge everyone for VAT. You are the one, as usual, accusing people to be fraudulent, everyone dealing with you and now even accusing people you never dealt with. Someone just exposed the Orazio Luciano story, that according to many of your emails, PM, and post on this site, he was your tailor and best friend...

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcodalondra View Post

Simply addressing your easy trigger "everyone" is a scam/fraud .
Orazio was your best mate and chosen tailor. Now is a fraud....

Have pacience until you can see the pics.

Meanwhile he said two years ago. I am a man of word, i will do you a jacket and if you like it you pay it, if not will do another.

Two days after i got a call ,ey pay us 1000.

Yeah a man of word... My fault to have byte this,fortunately smelt something and retired the trouser.

The jacket was terrible, he fooled me two years until last month instead of making a proper one. i sent personally 4 free meters of superexpensive Barbera cloth from the Barbera factory and they never opened the box.

You as neapoletan can ask around about him. If you get a single positive answer, consider yourself invited to a drink. Sadly you won't ear any.


Edited even offtopic. I am going to the hospital right now as i am with fever plenty of red spots and with the face bumped. Two days this way
after i got a rancid provola cheese on the center. My roommate is same and eat the same. We have been intoxicated.
Edited by SartodiNapoli - 6/15/14 at 5:39am
post #209 of 334
@marcodalondra and @SartodiNapoli, guys would it be an idea to get a separate thread for the La Vera discussion?

Btw, I have a bit of professional experience with European taxes and agree with Marco that the Italian government tends to apply its own set of rules which are not always compliant with the European rules and directives on the matter. In theory it should be fairly easy for an entrepreneur to apply the 0% VAT-rate for export outside the EU provided he has sufficient documentation to actually prove the export. In most European countries the export document provided by the courier should be sufficient, but maybe not in Italy. You generally want to avoid problems with the Italian Revenue Service. And there are quite a lot of 'Italian crazy judge' rulings on tax matters even by the Italian Supreme Court, so even if you are right or compliant with EU directives you may end up getting the short end of the stick.
post #210 of 334
The fact that the Italian justice system is bonkers is pretty uncontroversial it seems. Anyone wanting to delve into it might be interested in the book 'The Monster of Florence' which I found very entertaining.
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