Come on. You seem like a pretty smart man, how can you just continue to disregard what I write? Yes, Goodyear welting relies on adhesive for it's overall structure, it has both the adhesive part AND the holes and stitches. If the glue that holds the canvas rib to the insole fails, the shoe will fall a part. If the holes in the canvas rib fails the shoe will fall a part.
In a hand welted construction, you just have the latter, if the holes in the holdfast fails the shoe will fall apart.
And you still disregard the fact that both hand welting and Goodyear welting also are glued between every layer.
Try to concentrate when you read this, maybe read it twice or even three times before you reply again, I think that you are capable of understanding.
The fact that Goodyear copied the hand welting construction to make a cheaper and faster way to produce shoes is so well known that I never thought I had to spell that out. The reason that he copied hand welting is because hand welting is great, yes. It's both correct.
Look, I know you want to try and win the argument and all, but there really isn't anything factually wrong about what I said. You haven't refuted what I said.
I initially addressed leetpuma because he seems to be so against goodyear welted shoes due to the adhesion. That's fine. I outlined some pros to the adhesion (more even distribution of force, less stress raisers, etc). There was really nothing incorrect about what I said. I never tried to say goodyear welting is better than hand welting. You assumed I was advocating goodyear welting over hand welting (which I don't because the original last is needed to re-welt a goodyear welted shoe and unnecessary in a hand welted shoe). You are the one who started bringing up the canvas rib or the less thick insoles used in goodyear welted shoes, but none of that actually addresses or refutes the point of my original post.
The adhesion and different stitched parts in a goodyear welted shoe can fail and so can the extra stitching in the hand welted shoe. Are you trying to say that there are more ways a goodyear welted shoe can fail? Stitching or adhesion? What is your point and what does it have to do with what I originally said? But even that does not really say anything in a vacuum as far as overall durability as the adhesion can be more durable than the stitching, anyway.
"The fact that Goodyear copied the hand welting construction to make a cheaper and faster way to produce shoes is so well known that I never thought I had to spell that out. The reason that he copied hand welting is because hand welting is great, yes. It's both correct. "
Do I really have to go over this again? The mental gymnastics...ugh. You were originally trying to say there was a reason Goodyear tried using machines to emulate hand welting for a "reason" (implying hand welting is great without anything to back it up). My point is that it is an empty statement, as I don't think durability was his concern as much as it was borrowing the easily replaceable sole from hand welting. Again, this is all speculation. It was also an empty statement in regards to what I was saying. It wasn't about you having to spell out anything. When I brought it up, I was trying to show that you weren't really saying anything with such a fluffy statement/thought.
At the end of the day, it comes down to execution. A well made goodyear welted shoe can outlast a well made hand-welted shoe, and vice versa. A well made hand-welted shoe can easily outlast a poorly executed goodyear welted shoe, and vice versa.
The point is adhesion is not the devil it is made out to be by the likes of DWFII who is just trying to promote his bespoke business and crap on the RTW market. And even the canvas rib, he called it a "gemming." I don't even think I ever heard that word before him referring to the canvas rib as "gemming." Most always just referred to it as a canvas rib or rib (it's possible to use a leather one) before DWFII. Gemming is one of those words (if it is even a real word) that does not sit well on the ear and kind of sounds like "germ," lemming, or something. Clever on the part of DWFII to crap on GWY and to promote his bespoke business--I'll give him that.
Anyway, have a good night. Bedtime.