Meermin. Carmina 2nd brand? - Page 289

Ran across Meermin on the boards a year ago, but didn't really fit my aesthetic at the time.

As I'm moving into a more professional wardrobe now, an order in the near future looks inevitable. Double monks look very appealing.

Anyone have pictures of the ceuro shell cordovan after a good amount of wear? I'm trying to decide on a color for MTO split toes.

I hope Meermin doesn't attempt a price increase until they get their quality control, and delivery time perfected. Haven't ordered from them yet, but if they're not taking money up front, then they've probably decided against it since they're delivery time sounds pretty unpredictable at the moment. Especially if it's taking them over a month to produce their default shoes, excluding MTO shoes since those take longer to have extra care given. 

I'd say their pricing is about right - other Chinese or Indian-made shoes are cheaper; I bought some for my son that are quite respectable Goodyear-welted shoes, for under 50 Euros recently (btw I wasn't just being stingy, he's 14, growing like a weed and needs new clothes about every six weeks right now!).  So where they have to set themselves apart is in quality, finishing and service.  

 

On the first point, the reports are pretty good - perception being that the constituent parts are as good as some higher-priced shoes (although some problems with their cheap Argentinian cordovan; maybe the clue is in the name - wasn't "Rocinante" Don Quixote's decrepit fleabag horse?!).  On the second point, reports in this thread vary.  And on the third, it seems the intention to be helpful is always there, but the management is poor:  honestly, it's not hard to know whether something is in stock or not.  They're not the only ones who do this - even G&G's new online store has the same problem of not being linked to a stock record.  But either way, once you've ordered, you should be able to receive a prompt and accurate delivery date, or the option to leave it.

 

Once you get into "Linea Maestro" and the price is higher, then you're more expensive than, say, most  Barkers or Loakes, and on a par with, say, Cheaney, or discounted Church, C&J etc.  So  the quality and consistency better be good.  The leather and the finishing at this level might be, but then once you're here, you really want to be able to just see what's available now and buy your damn shoes!  Any of the other brands mentioned are with you in three days from more etailers, anywhere in the world, for $30 shipping or thereabouts.  So I do think they need to talk to the bank, start holding a lot more stock, and give their online business the same treatment as they do to their shop.

 

If I may, a quick comparison: Septieme Largeur has a similar distinction of good leathers and some high-end features (channeled stitching, fiddleback waists) as Meermin's Linea Maestro range.  They are slightly cheaper thasn Linea Maestro, and also have clearance items at half price *(visit NOW if you're a UK 10.5-11!).  If you go to their website, you will only be able to order what is actually in stock in your size.  Their only downside perhaps is that they don't do MTO.  But as a model in how to sell good shoes for not very much money, it might be worth Meermin taking a look at for an example.

 

At the end of the day, we all fall in love with certain shoe brands, and evangelise about how fabulous our new bargain "discovery" is.  Meermin, Carmina, Vass, Ed et Al, whoever, when we see something that looks like a bargain we want it.  But with so many good brands available online, they need to watch the customer service and how they manage the expectations of their customers.  Vass make all their stuff MTO anyway so you know where you stand - and their turnaround is very fast for MTO anyway.  Some small makers only take orders by email, which is fine, but you need a straight answer as to whether they have what you want to order before they take your money.  And really, if the likes of Septieme Largeur or Ed et Al can offer the same "real" online store that only sells you what is there to sell, then there's no excuse for Meermin or Carmina.  And to be fair, even less excuse for G&G!

You make a good point about delivery - one I've made as well, but I have to disagree that there are other manufacturers putting out the product Meermin is (when they finally put out the product).  You seem to prove this yourself by suggesting that the three factors for a great shoe are "quality, finishing and service," then always falling back to complaints about delivery.  Once again, I agree with that assessment however, you then make favorable comparisons that I don't believe are there.  Vass, Church, Carmina, etc... either do not sell their shoes at a price even remotely close to Meermin or produce a product that isn't nearly as good (in my opinion).  For example, Church is both more expensive and often uses corrected leather in their shoes, Carmina is nearly double the cost for a slightly better product, and Septieme Largeur (while a very nice shoe) doesn't compare with Meermin when using like measures as SL's line is closer to the Classic Collection which lists at €85 less.  The only factors making Meermin unattractive to so many (and rightly so) are delivery time and quality control.  And as these are the two points I originally brought up as reasons to think they could raise their prices, I think I can still stand by my original post.

 

Yes, we all have favorite brands and become enamoured with them.  I certainly don't disagree that I'm very much into Meermin's shoes at this time.  However, the opposite also holds true and there will always be someone out there looking to trash another brand in a misguided effort to push their own favorite.  It all evens out.  Perhaps we should just agree that Meemin, whether each of us likes the company or not, needs to get a handle on both delivery times and quality control and one way to do that is through an influx of cash which could be borrowed from the banks (not sure how generous Spanish banks are at the moment) or by raising prices.

in my opinion would be enough to make customers pay upfront as you make the order , I believe they already produce in economic lots if not it would not make sence that all of us waiting for shoes since long time are size 9 or a particular model. As of the margin per shoes pair that's subjective to any company (I mean I could make pizzas and be happy to make 1 euro a pizza or 4 ,but that's entirely up to me). The problem they are currently facing is in my opinion that customes dimands more and more models\leathers\colours and that's a bigger problem than the price. Anyway let's hope they don't raise prices!

 

I'm sorry, I didn't want to come across as "trashing" Meermin - not at all.  I like what they do, I like that they also do MTO, and I just like that they exist.  We can debate and discuss the relative merits of different brands but it doesn't matter - at the moment, you and I both still want to buy Meermin shoes.

 

I'm just saying that they have competition, especially at their LM price point, and as choices get wider, the customer experience can cost.  They need to stop for breath, even if that means freezing new orders for a couple of weeks, and get a simple off-the-shelf e-retail and stock control system - just like some of their equally small competitors have done.  That would make their lives easier, as well as minimising the risk that their customers will cheat on them with a pretty fiddleback Frenchie (other nationalities are available).

At the Linea Maestro price point there aren't really that many brands offering hand welting, i.e. no gemming. If the quality control was more consistent, I'd take a pair of LM's over a pair of Carminas any day.

Customer satisfaction is a fairy tale for most Spanish companies.

 

Including Linea Maestro: if they are "goodyear welted" as described, then that's a mechanical process, and involves gemming.  "Hand welted goodyear" is a contradiction in terms, that I can only take to mean "using your hands to operate the goodyear machine!".  I suspect that the Linea maestro are welted in house, rather than in China like the regular line.  The only actual hand stitching their site shows in its video collection is for Norvegese.  Which is presumably why it is another 100 Euros.  I think if they actually hand-stitched the welts and/or soles, they'd make more of a selling point out of it considering what else they show on the site.

 

Again, I'm not having a dig at Meermin here.  Goodyear welting on a machine is still a skillful process and John Lobb, Edward Green and G&G do exactly the same - and gemming too.  But phrases like "hand made", "hand welted", "hand grade" and the like are deliberately vague.  There are very few (usually bespoke) makers who actually sew the welt and sole on by hand, and I'm pretty sure Meermin isn't one of them.  I think the real difference is quality control, like you've said: the more they do in their own factory instead of China, the more consistent they can be. Along with different leather grades, I'm sure that is what you pay the extra for - not just the painted soles.

A dissected LM (GY-2 construction) shows a carved feather and no gemming, as oppossed to GY-1:

 

http://www.styleforum.net/t/277707/meermin-carmina-2nd-brand/1000_40#post_5563359

 

I guess they use the term "goodyear" because it sells shoes by itself, but LM are NOT goodyear welted. They are hand welted.

Here's to hoping my shoes ship as said......................

Good news for the group MTO; Pepe just informed me that the museum calf has just arrived from Ilcea.He will send me some pics soon that I will share with all of you

WOO HOO!!!

 

Then that makes them and Vass pretty much the only regular favourites on here that are then. Thanks for straightening that out, and I'm impressed!