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The State of Black Tie: Your Observations - Page 65

post #961 of 3230
Quote:
Originally Posted by becnal View Post

Am I the only one to find that a bit tacky and / or strange ? "We'll be wearing black tie but no one else is ALLOWED to". Don't they realise that a guest would get suited in black tie to show respect and appreciation for the occasion and the efforts of the hosts? Is it just me, or does this smack of insecurity on the part of the hosts? I mean, I wouldn't show up in white tie to a black tie do, but black tie being off limits at a black tie do doesn't seem right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Argentino View Post

More about setting the wedding party apart from guests. Similar to bogus thought that the groom has to be different from the rest of the men in the party too, etc.

But it's the bride (and groom's) day, so what they say should go.

For me the bigger issue is who would want to be the only one (outside of the wedding party) to show up in black tie? Unless of course you were planning to recover the cost of the wedding gift in tips by brining people drinks...

Whether the goal was to set the wedding party apart or not, I'm not sure why it's offensive. Perhaps they just wanted to be emphatic about cocktail attire since they don't want a few people showing up in black tie and then feeling weird about it. After one of my cousin's weddings I started making sure to ask "how optional?" when an invite says "black tie optional". Outside of the wedding party my dad and I were the only ones to show up in tuxedos and we sort of wished we hadn't.
post #962 of 3230

^^

 

Indeed, that's the one aspect of black tie that I've seen change quite a bit in recent years. When confronted with a "black tie optional" dress code, most people seem to decline the option.

 

Traditionally, I'd always assumed that "black tie optional" was less optional than the phrase appeared: if you owned a black tie ensemble, you were expected to wear it. These days, however, most people don't own tuxes and don't want to go through the trouble to rent them.

post #963 of 3230
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimelesStyle View Post


For me the bigger issue is who would want to be the only one (outside of the wedding party) to show up in black tie? Unless of course you were planning to recover the cost of the wedding gift in tips by brining people drinks...

Whether the goal was to set the wedding party apart or not, I'm not sure why it's offensive. Perhaps they just wanted to be emphatic about cocktail attire since they don't want a few people showing up in black tie and then feeling weird about it. After one of my cousin's weddings I started making sure to ask "how optional?" when an invite says "black tie optional". Outside of the wedding party my dad and I were the only ones to show up in tuxedos and we sort of wished we hadn't.

That's a good idea. I went to BTO wedding with one of those borderline late afternoon ceremonies and just decided to wear the tux since I didn't want to pack a suit and a tux. I was the only guest wearing a tux at the ceremony, and felt really stupid until I showed up the reception and at least 10 other guests had changed into black tie. In retrospect I should have worn a suit to the church, but who knows if anyone else would have changed had I not done it first.

Yet another reason I'm not wearing black tie to my wedding. I would love to, but only if I could have a "black tie mandatory" wedding, which is just not practical in my social circle.
post #964 of 3230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Texas View Post

Indeed, that's the one aspect of black tie that I've seen change quite a bit in recent years. When confronted with a "black tie optional" dress code, most people seem to decline the option.

Traditionally, I'd always assumed that "black tie optional" was less optional than the phrase appeared: if you owned a black tie ensemble, you were expected to wear it. These days, however, most people don't own tuxes and don't want to go through the trouble to rent them.

I actually think it's bad form to specify a dress code that most of your guests won't be able to achieve.
post #965 of 3230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Veen View Post


I actually think it's bad form to specify a dress code that most of your guests won't be able to achieve.

 

Perhaps, though I don't think black tie is an unreasonable standard to meet if requested. Most people don't own tuxes anymore, but they can still rent if need be. No doubt there will come a day when black tie is so rare as to be seen as unreasonable and anachronistic. But that day isn't quite here yet.

 

I'd see your point if, say, a couple in the US were demanding full morning dress at their wedding.

post #966 of 3230
There should never be a reason to specify the "black-tie'ness" of a wedding on the invitation. The time of the ceremony and the formality of the invitation are enough.
post #967 of 3230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Texas View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Veen View Post

I actually think it's bad form to specify a dress code that most of your guests won't be able to achieve.

Perhaps, though I don't think black tie is an unreasonable standard to meet if requested. Most people don't own tuxes anymore, but they can still rent if need be. No doubt there will come a day when black tie is so rare as to be seen as unreasonable and anachronistic. But that day isn't quite here yet.

I'd see your point if, say, a couple in the US were demanding full morning dress at their wedding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicmax View Post

There should never be a reason to specify the "black-tie'ness" of a wedding on the invitation. The time of the ceremony and the formality of the invitation are enough.

In an era when you cannot assume that a man will own a suit at all, this strikes me as almost insufferably elitist. Black tie is no longer commonplace, disappointing as I may find that fact. Van Veen is correct.
post #968 of 3230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Texas View Post

Perhaps, though I don't think black tie is an unreasonable standard to meet if requested. Most people don't own tuxes anymore, but they can still rent if need be. No doubt there will come a day when black tie is so rare as to be seen as unreasonable and anachronistic. But that day isn't quite here yet.

I'd see your point if, say, a couple in the US were demanding full morning dress at their wedding.

I disagree for a couple of reasons. First off, if I'm one of those guys (and I know a bunch) that has one or two nice suits but no tux (no need for more suits or a tux) I sure as hell don't want to show up anywhere in some ill-fitting, rented, polyester piece of shit with some high schooler's prom jizz stain still visible. There's a reason I chose to spend my money on one or two really nice suits and left it at that. Also, even for those who don't really care, it's a pretty dick move to make a couple hundred people spend a at least $100 to rent the garment referred to above. I get it, the day is about you, but there's no need to be that myopic and obtuse.

There are three things that you can/should put on a wedding invitation: "black tie preferred", "black tie optional" or "cocktail attire". After that, it's up to your guests (who are your friends* and are adults) to decide how to proceed.





*Or your parents' friends who you don't personally give a shit about and just hope give you cash instead of some piece of crap that makes the rented tuxes referred to above look classy by comparison.
post #969 of 3230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Texas View Post

Perhaps, though I don't think black tie is an unreasonable standard to meet if requested. Most people don't own tuxes anymore, but they can still rent if need be. No doubt there will come a day when black tie is so rare as to be seen as unreasonable and anachronistic. But that day isn't quite here yet.

You really would ask your guests to go through the inconvenience and expense of renting a tuxedo to attend your wedding when you know that very few of them own tuxedos? I hope you wouldn't be upset when a lot of people decline to attend and your gifts are lighter than expected.

Semi-tangent: There are really a lot of greedy, entitled hosts nowadays. (I am giving you all this STUFF so you BETTER repay me and do whatever I say!) There's just no sense of grace or generosity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicmax View Post

There should never be a reason to specify the "black-tie'ness" of a wedding on the invitation. The time of the ceremony and the formality of the invitation are enough.

Decades ago, maybe. Now, no. Most people will never attend a true black tie event in their lives. If you don't put a dress code, you'd get people showing up in khakis and brightly colored dress shirts looking like cell phone salesmen regardless of whether your invitation is in perfect copperplate calligraphy or comic sans. That is unless, of course, most of your friends live on a completely different social level than your average middle class American.

The problem nowadays is the dilution of dress code meanings. To most people nowadays, "formal" actually means "business formal". I bet if you put "cocktail attire" on an invitation, you'd see more than a handful of guys without ties and at least a few without jackets.
post #970 of 3230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Veen View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicmax View Post

There should never be a reason to specify the "black-tie'ness" of a wedding on the invitation. The time of the ceremony and the formality of the invitation are enough.

Decades ago, maybe. Now, no. Most people will never attend a true black tie event in their lives. If you don't put a dress code, you'd get people showing up in khakis and brightly colored dress shirts looking like cell phone salesmen regardless of whether your invitation is in perfect copperplate calligraphy or comic sans. That is unless, of course, most of your friends live on a completely different social level than your average middle class American.

The problem nowadays is the dilution of dress code meanings. To most people nowadays, "formal" actually means "business formal". I bet if you put "cocktail attire" on an invitation, you'd see more than a handful of guys without ties and at least a few without jackets.

I agree that the correct form is not to put a dress code on a wedding invitation but different cultures and strata of society within cultures will interpret proper wedding dress code differently.

Here in the UK morning dress might be expected but black tie almost never worn, other cultures may have a completely different form of normal wedding wear.

Personally I would not put a dress code but tell the guests what people will be wearing, after all if you are not going to speak to your guests sometime before the wedding why are you inviting them?
post #971 of 3230
The thing I don't get is that it's possible to buy the whole black tie kit for the cost of one or two rentals. And having your own is just so damn cool, it's great planning on going out to a New Year's party or friend's wedding or opera or whatever and knowing you have your entire outfit already planned out and to be guaranteed you'll look like a million bucks in it. One of the best feelings in the world.

EDIT: I got my tuxedo on eBay for 20 bucks and spent another 80 at a tailor having it altered to within an inch of it's life. Looks and feels like bespoke now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Texas View Post

These days, however, most people don't own tuxes and don't want to go through the trouble to rent them.
post #972 of 3230
I think it's worse form to assume that a guest isn't able to rise to the level of the affair and therefore avoid inviting them. Besides, as BlackTieGuide.com says, Black Tie Requested is the perfect fix to this situation. Guests who have dinner jackets know they should wear them, and guests who don't know that a normal black suit with a normal black tie will be perfectly sufficient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Veen View Post

I actually think it's bad form to specify a dress code that most of your guests won't be able to achieve.
post #973 of 3230

 

Did anyone notice President Obama's "White Tie"?  Two-Button, Notched Lapel, Cumberbund? The list goes on.

post #974 of 3230
And what's so bad about showing up to a black tie optional party and being the only one in a tux? It shows you've got some balls and weren't too intimidated by the fear of being the only one. Also makes the other schlubs wish they had worn one and vow to get one pronto. Be a role model to the insecure out there! biggrin.gif
post #975 of 3230
Yes, sigh, definitely not his best move. Why oh why can't someone on this forum get throu to him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch38 View Post


Did anyone notice President Obama's "White Tie"?  Two-Button, Notched Lapel, Cumberbund? The list goes on.
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