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The State of Black Tie: Your Observations - Page 64

post #946 of 3158
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

I must confess that I really like that jacket.

All I could think when I saw it was that someone did with his tuxedo what Will Smith did with his school uniform in "The Fresh Prince of Bel Air".
post #947 of 3158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Veen View Post

I would rather trust these:

 

Exactly.

 

White is and was for summer resort wear, when the heat could be nearly unbearable. So, a waistcoat would be abandoned for the much cooler cummerbund. And even the cummerbund would be left home, if the dinner jacket was a double breasted one which would remained buttoned the entire evening including when seated.

 

The other wrong detail, is the wing collar, being a remnant of white tie rig, which would more than likely be paired with a white pique waistcoat and attached to a boiled stiff fronted shirt with heavily starched bib, even if wearing a black tie and dinner jacket. My impression, that could be wrong, was that the turndown collar was the one most associated with a black waistcoat  and dinner jacket. This shirt was a much softer shirt with double cuffs compared to the stiff fronted bibs and single linked cuffs on boiled shirts with wing collars since it was an informal occasion where one was dressing for primarily for comfort.

 

Winged collars with tuxedos and dinner jackets were very popular during the 80's in the US for some reason, but they would be on a shirt with soft front and double cuffs. This was a style and fashion choice, not one for comfort, since when properly starched winged collars are quite stiff.

 

The only real advantage of wearing a wing collar with dinner jacket, is that it offers positive confirmation to all that you are not wearing a clip-on tie. I used to wear one occasionally for that vain reason, but it was properly starched, very stiff and I attached it to a soft double cuff shirt with detachable collar.

 

Any hoo, just my perspective and not absolute historical fact.

post #948 of 3158
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

The thing behind it is a disaster though...

You ain't whistlin' Dixie...
post #949 of 3158
"Oh I never do that, Mr. Bunker." ~Lionel Jefferson
post #950 of 3158

I wear my tux as I would rather be among the better dressed men at an event.

post #951 of 3158
Data point.

I have a wedding tomorrow that begins at 4:00. The invitation didn't specify a dress code. My wife checked with a relative of the bride who told us that the wedding party will be in black tie but everyone else should come in cocktail attire. It was clear that they wanted no one else in BT. I am glad we checked.
post #952 of 3158

Thanks for all of the help guys!

post #953 of 3158
Am I the only one to find that a bit tacky and / or strange ? "We'll be wearing black tie but no one else is ALLOWED to". Don't they realise that a guest would get suited in black tie to show respect and appreciation for the occasion and the efforts of the hosts? Is it just me, or does this smack of insecurity on the part of the hosts? I mean, I wouldn't show up in white tie to a black tie do, but black tie being off limits at a black tie do doesn't seem right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Data point. I have a wedding tomorrow that begins at 4:00. The invitation didn't specify a dress code. My wife checked with a relative of the bride who told us that the wedding party will be in black tie but everyone else should come in cocktail attire. It was clear that they wanted no one else in BT. I am glad we checked.
post #954 of 3158
Quote:
Originally Posted by becnal View Post

Am I the only one to find that a bit tacky and / or strange ? "We'll be wearing black tie but no one else is ALLOWED to". Don't they realise that a guest would get suited in black tie to show respect and appreciation for the occasion and the efforts of the hosts? Is it just me, or does this smack of insecurity on the part of the hosts? I mean, I wouldn't show up in white tie to a black tie do, but black tie being off limits at a black tie do doesn't seem right.

More about setting the wedding party apart from guests. Similar to bogus thought that the groom has to be different from the rest of the men in the party too, etc.

But it's the bride (and groom's) day, so what they say should go.
post #955 of 3158
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimelesStyle View Post

Are those penny loafers in the first shot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by culverwood View Post

A loafer yes but more refined than a penny one. Just the thing for black tie.

What? No, those are penny loafers. He was known for them. The type he's wearing have a structured toe that makes them different from the moccasin constructed example that's the iconic form of the shoe, but they are absolutely penny loafers. Look at the Allen Edmonds Westchester for something comparable. Not a very useful shoe, (IMO, structured toes don't belong on a loafer ever), especially in black, but there it is.
post #956 of 3158
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post



What? No, those are penny loafers. He was known for them. The type he's wearing have a structured toe that makes them different from the moccasin constructed example that's the iconic form of the shoe, but they are absolutely penny loafers. Look at the Allen Edmonds Westchester for something comparable. Not a very useful shoe, (IMO, structured toes don't belong on a loafer ever), especially in black, but there it is.


Exactly. For over a decade, I wore black tassel loafers with full dinner suit including waistcoat. That was my affectation and only deviation from what would be expected., other than I really find it hard to get excited about metal studs in my formal shirts, preferring mother of pearl in winter and a clean fly front shirt in summer.

 

Black tie is in-formal wear anyway with a fair amount of deviation from the form being acceptable.

 

I wouldn't get hung on the shoes too much, when some bozo or five are going to wear a bright red bowtie and clavicle high vest to spice things up, with others wearing something less than a well fitted suit.

post #957 of 3158
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Data point.

I have a wedding tomorrow that begins at 4:00. The invitation didn't specify a dress code. My wife checked with a relative of the bride who told us that the wedding party will be in black tie but everyone else should come in cocktail attire. It was clear that they wanted no one else in BT. I am glad we checked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by becnal View Post

Am I the only one to find that a bit tacky and / or strange ? "We'll be wearing black tie but no one else is ALLOWED to". Don't they realise that a guest would get suited in black tie to show respect and appreciation for the occasion and the efforts of the hosts? Is it just me, or does this smack of insecurity on the part of the hosts? I mean, I wouldn't show up in white tie to a black tie do, but black tie being off limits at a black tie do doesn't seem right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Argentino View Post

More about setting the wedding party apart from guests. Similar to bogus thought that the groom has to be different from the rest of the men in the party too, etc.

But it's the bride (and groom's) day, so what they say should go.

I don't really care. It is just clothes, and it isn't like I have a personal stake in what I wear to someone else's wedding. They can set whatever reasonable rules they want. If I have a complaint, it is only that the invitation didn't specify, leaving some confusion.
post #958 of 3158
No personal stake? You dress to represent yourself. It doesn't get much more personal than that.
post #959 of 3158
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post


I don't really care. It is just clothes, and it isn't like I have a personal stake in what I wear to someone else's wedding. They can set whatever reasonable rules they want. If I have a complaint, it is only that the invitation didn't specify, leaving some confusion.

 

Well not taking offense is one thing, and the whole thing being in principle totally classless is another. It's like... well... erm... Not exactly insulting, just classless and tactless. A breach of diplomatic conduct.

post #960 of 3158
Quote:
Originally Posted by becnal View Post

No personal stake? You dress to represent yourself. It doesn't get much more personal than that.

 

Yes, and to overdress -- especially when asked not to -- is to represent oneself poorly.

 

Someone else's wedding isn't your personal time to shine. You should respect the wishes of the bride and groom. Dressing out of place for the chosen level of formality is almost as bad as underdressing.

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