The State of Black Tie: Your Observations - Page 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Veen 

I would rather trust these:

Exactly.

White is and was for summer resort wear, when the heat could be nearly unbearable. So, a waistcoat would be abandoned for the much cooler cummerbund. And even the cummerbund would be left home, if the dinner jacket was a double breasted one which would remained buttoned the entire evening including when seated.

The other wrong detail, is the wing collar, being a remnant of white tie rig, which would more than likely be paired with a white pique waistcoat and attached to a boiled stiff fronted shirt with heavily starched bib, even if wearing a black tie and dinner jacket. My impression, that could be wrong, was that the turndown collar was the one most associated with a black waistcoat  and dinner jacket. This shirt was a much softer shirt with double cuffs compared to the stiff fronted bibs and single linked cuffs on boiled shirts with wing collars since it was an informal occasion where one was dressing for primarily for comfort.

Winged collars with tuxedos and dinner jackets were very popular during the 80's in the US for some reason, but they would be on a shirt with soft front and double cuffs. This was a style and fashion choice, not one for comfort, since when properly starched winged collars are quite stiff.

The only real advantage of wearing a wing collar with dinner jacket, is that it offers positive confirmation to all that you are not wearing a clip-on tie. I used to wear one occasionally for that vain reason, but it was properly starched, very stiff and I attached it to a soft double cuff shirt with detachable collar.

Any hoo, just my perspective and not absolute historical fact.

I wear my tux as I would rather be among the better dressed men at an event.

Thanks for all of the help guys!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cptjeff 



What? No, those are penny loafers. He was known for them. The type he's wearing have a structured toe that makes them different from the moccasin constructed example that's the iconic form of the shoe, but they are absolutely penny loafers. Look at the Allen Edmonds Westchester for something comparable. Not a very useful shoe, (IMO, structured toes don't belong on a loafer ever), especially in black, but there it is.

Exactly. For over a decade, I wore black tassel loafers with full dinner suit including waistcoat. That was my affectation and only deviation from what would be expected., other than I really find it hard to get excited about metal studs in my formal shirts, preferring mother of pearl in winter and a clean fly front shirt in summer.

Black tie is in-formal wear anyway with a fair amount of deviation from the form being acceptable.

I wouldn't get hung on the shoes too much, when some bozo or five are going to wear a bright red bowtie and clavicle high vest to spice things up, with others wearing something less than a well fitted suit.