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The State of Black Tie: Your Observations - Page 56

post #826 of 3458
Quote:
Originally Posted by msulinski View Post

I just returned from a 7-night cruise that left out of NJ and went to the Bahamas and back. The cruise had 2 formal nights, one of which was New Year's Eve. I wore traditional black tie for that event. There were very few others who did this. Most wore a suit. I did see a few other tuxedos, but with odd-color bow ties and vests.

For the second night, I wore a cream colored dinner jacket with the tuxedo pants, a black bow tie and burgundy pocket square. My understanding is that this is standard warm-weather/cruise black tie, if slightly less formal than the standard tuxedo. Unfortunately, that evening, the head waiters were wearing a very similar setup (shawl collar white dinner jackets, black trousers) except for a burgundy bow tie (still arguably correct black tie though). One of the waiters even joked with me by asking if I worked there, and told me to come in the back to help him. I was a bit annoyed that I went through the effort of doing correct black tie, only to find that the wait staff had done the same (if by accident). Typically staff are differentiated from guests by incorporating aspects of formal wear that are incorrect.

I'm not sure why the staff getting black tie right annoys you. Back when people actually followed the rules for formal dress by and large so too would the staff (albeit sometimes with the shorter coats specifically designed for food service).

Oh, and the burgundy tie, according to Black Tie Guide, is specifically only correct when paired with a burgundy cummerbund and used with a white/off-white DJ so either they really knew what they were doing or just got really lucky that the chosen tie was acceptable only with the chosen jacket and would have been considered incorrect with a black DJ.
post #827 of 3458
Quote:
Originally Posted by BackInTheJox View Post

 

Yeah this was my thought exactly.  

 

Another issue (for him and for my wedding, actually) seems to be the bride wanting to be able to "differentiate" the groom from the rest of the groomsmen.  His bride and mine both seem pretty level headed and certainly not one of those "make the groomsmen wear colorful ties/vests that match the bridesmaids outfit while the groom wears a silver four-in-hand and matching awful vest" types; however, they both (the two women, both of whom are good friends with each other) have discussed wanting us both to wear white bowties with our tuxedos for our respective weddings, which we both obviously (and successfully) lobbied against.

 

For my wedding, I will probably just have a white boutonniere while the groomsmen will have pink . . . that may be the only major discerning features, and my fiancee is cool with that.  His, on the other hand, would prefer a little more as far as "setting the groom apart from the groomsmen", and the white DJ at the reception (but black DJ just like the groomsmen during the ceremony) was his proposed solution, it seems.

My hesitation with the white jacket would be that it is something typically used in tropical, warm-weather environments. It is also less formal than the matching dinner jacket. So while the groom is differentiated from the groomsmen, he ends up being the least formal of the bunch. My recommendation would be to just wear the black matching dinner jacket for the entire evening.

 

The suggestion that someone else made about the vest (not one of those high ones) for the groom and cummerbunds for the groomsmen is a good one. The groomsmen could also do shawl collars. You could also have the groom wear a white pocket square while the groomsmen go without.

post #828 of 3458
I like dopey's suggestion, but I'd like to see a madras jacket like this:

post #829 of 3458
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

A cream colored DJ is resort/tropics attire (fastidious types wouldn't even wear it in the summer-time in a normal city (i.e., not a resort type place)), so it would be kind of silly to change into one after the ceremony. In fact, it makes no sense other than as something to do.
If he wants to change into something for fun, maybe he should get a pair of Belgian Loafer type "formal" slippers for the party part (Shipton and Heneage makes something suitable, too) and, to go all-out casual Black tie, he could get a velvet or silk smoking jacket. Those are both technically correct at club parties. The smoking jacket is a bit crazy and I am only mentioning it as a "correct" if silly possibility, but the slippers make sense and would actually be a nice change.

What about something less formal but also less "tropical" such as a velvet shawl collar DJ? I don't honestly think anyone would notice the slippers, hence they wouldn't achieve the desired impact.
post #830 of 3458
I just picked up this jacket. Need to nip and tuck and shorten the sleeves, but I'm looking forward to next year's holiday season.

post #831 of 3458
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimelesStyle View Post

What about something less formal but also less "tropical" such as a velvet shawl collar DJ? I don't honestly think anyone would notice the slippers, hence they wouldn't achieve the desired impact.

The slippers were more for his benefit and enjoyment than for show.
A velvet, shawl collar DJ would be kind of cool. Get one with frogging and you basically have a smoking jacket, which is what I was suggesting. It is a bit OTT and pointless, but if that is what he wants, that is what I would suggest. The madras/tartan ones posted don't seem right for a wedding.
post #832 of 3458
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

The slippers were more for his benefit and enjoyment than for show.
A velvet, shawl collar DJ would be kind of cool. Get one with frogging and you basically have a smoking jacket, which is what I was suggesting. It is a bit OTT and pointless, but if that is what he wants, that is what I would suggest. The madras/tartan ones posted don't seem right for a wedding.

I don't think I'd go with a smoking jacket and would prefer a sleeker design. Single button, shawl lapel, most likely in black (could be talked into liking burgundy or a dark forest green, though). I would not, however, do the jacket swap if wearing a waistcoat. For some reason I think a cummerbund is better suited to anything other than a SB PL black/midnight DJ.
post #833 of 3458
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimelesStyle View Post


I don't think I'd go with a smoking jacket and would prefer a sleeker design. Single button, shawl lapel, most likely in black (could be talked into liking burgundy or a dark forest green, though). I would not, however, do the jacket swap if wearing a waistcoat. For some reason I think a cummerbund is better suited to anything other than a SB PL black/midnight DJ.

 

He is going the cummerbund route, so I suppose a switch would still work.  I think that the black velvet dinner jacket idea (shawl collar, one button) seems pretty good, I'll pass that one along to him.  

 

Velvet slippers seems interesting (and maybe along with the velvet DJ switch?), so I'll mention that too and see what he thinks.

post #834 of 3458
Quote:
Originally Posted by BackInTheJox View Post

He is going the cummerbund route, so I suppose a switch would still work.  I think that the black velvet dinner jacket idea (shawl collar, one button) seems pretty good, I'll pass that one along to him.  

Velvet slippers seems interesting (and maybe along with the velvet DJ switch?), so I'll mention that too and see what he thinks.

Not sure what his financial situation is, but Suit Supply has one for under $400, may be worth pointing out to him. For some reason velvet jackets that are actually appropriate as dinner jackets aren't the easiest to find.

Still doesn't necessarily solve the other issue. Tell me, are the groomsmen all doing the same exact tux, or is each simply responsible for getting a tux (which will dictate whether something about the suit can be the differentiating factor)?

Particularly if each is procuring his own, I would suggest going the fly-front shirt route with the hidden placket. The vast majority of formal shirts come with either a removable placket or really cheap/crappy studs and this will save them from having to purchase a real set.
post #835 of 3458
I am hereafter looking for opportunities to somehow justify a deep-red smoking jacket.
post #836 of 3458
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTM View Post

I am hereafter looking for opportunities to somehow justify a deep-red smoking jacket.

H&M sells one for $129? Seems good enough to me...
post #837 of 3458
I think we all need to start posting pics of our dinner jackets...
post #838 of 3458
Quote:
Originally Posted by BackInTheJox View Post


Another issue (for him and for my wedding, actually) seems to be the bride wanting to be able to "differentiate" the groom from the rest of the groomsmen.

Subtle, Variation I: groom wears flower to match bride, groomsmen wear same flower in a color that matches bridesmaids
Subtle, Variation II: groom wears flower to match bride, groomsmen wear a different flower in the same color (calla lily/tulip for example)
Unsubtle: groom wears tailcoat, groomsmen wear tuxedos

Mine was at 6:30 I had everyone in tailcoats with "Subtle II" flowers.
post #839 of 3458
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicmax View Post

Subtle, Variation I: groom wears flower to match bride, groomsmen wear same flower in a color that matches bridesmaids
Subtle, Variation II: groom wears flower to match bride, groomsmen wear a different flower in the same color (calla lily/tulip for example)
Unsubtle: groom wears tailcoat, groomsmen wear tuxedos

Mine was at 6:30 I had everyone in tailcoats with "Subtle II" flowers.

If the wedding calls for black tie, I'm curious what's so inappropriate about the groom in white tie and the groomsmen in black? I thought I remember reading in a thread here that it's always acceptable to wear white tie attire to an event calling for black tie but not vice versa.

It's not a solution I'd personally go for (were I the groom), but I don't know that it's "incorrect" per se.
post #840 of 3458
I think it's slightly offensive to wear white tie and force everyone else to be underdressed by wearing black.
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