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The State of Black Tie: Your Observations - Page 6

post #76 of 3500
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbonbasted View Post

To be honest I think you'd be surprised. A very, very large number of my friends wear things like seersucker/sack suits and bowties regularly. They wear loafers year-round and adhere to a conservative dress code. They are likely to wear a blue blazer to a bar with pleated khakis and alligator driving shoes.
To me this is quite classic. WASPy? For sure. "Fratty"? Without doubt. Old-fashioned? I think that really depends on your definition. However, I don't think any of my friends could care less about being seen as "cool."

I think you're still missing my point. When a thing is viewed predominantly as old-fashioned, it tends to be disfavored by younger people. That doesn't mean all classic or old things are predominantly associated with being old-fashioned. When an old-fashioned thing suddenly becomes acceptable, popular, or fashionable, people tend to stop calling it old-fashioned.
post #77 of 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

When an old-fashioned thing suddenly becomes acceptable, popular, or fashionable, people tend to stop calling it old-fashioned.


Undoubtably. And because at that point in time, it is no longer old-fashioned, rather it is acceptable, popular, or fashionable. :)

post #78 of 3500
Yes but when all these things have been prominent elements of style in the South and on the East Coast for generations does that mean they can never be viewed as old fashioned by the majority? It seems your definition of old fashioned is extremely subjective and varies from person to person, group to group, culture to culture.
post #79 of 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

I think you're still missing my point. When a thing is viewed predominantly as old-fashioned, it tends to be disfavored by younger people. That doesn't mean all classic or old things are predominantly associated with being old-fashioned. When an old-fashioned thing suddenly becomes acceptable, popular, or fashionable, people tend to stop calling it old-fashioned.

Yea I just think you're wrong about this. There's a whole "Trad" resurgence now. If what you're saying is true, it should be the same stuff just relabeled as "Mod". It's being explicitly labeled as traditional, old school. RL does the same thing - he makes no bones about his look being borrowed from yesteryear and "old-fashioned". Association with earlier generations does not turn off younger customers these days.
post #80 of 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

yay!!!! an office pants thread!

Edited by F. Corbera - 11/23/11 at 4:34am
post #81 of 3500
You would not feel out of place if you attended the Metropolitan Opera in black tie on a Friday or Saturday night. Would guess no more than 20% are in black tie, but people are very dressed up in general, and in party clothes too - velvet jackets, bowties, ascots, etc.

As as Southerner I might be biased, but amongst the well-to-do wedding are almost always black tie (exception: outdoor weddings in warmer months). If you're the type to grow up going to cotillions, country club events, fraternity formals, etc, you would almost certainly own a tuxedo by age 20. Now it wouldn't likely be a very nice tuxedo (my friend calls it a 'fratcedo') and would probably have notch lapels, but you'd get used to the idea of wearing one and would probably upgrade to a proper one around age 25. Goes without saying that the bowtie would be self-tie and would wear a proper shirt with studs, cufflinks, etc.

In my opinion, comfort with wearing a tuxedo is proportional to how often one wears it. If you've worn a tuxedo 3 times in your life you probably think it's stuffy or old-fashioned, but at a certain point you begin to enjoy and look forward to it.
post #82 of 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjphillips View Post

As as Southerner I might be biased, but amongst the well-to-do wedding are almost always black tie (exception: outdoor weddings in warmer months). If you're the type to grow up going to cotillions, country club events, fraternity formals, etc, you would almost certainly own a tuxedo by age 20.

We're talking quite quite well-to-do then...I grew up in the South, my mom's family has lived here for generations, and we're not FU wealthy, but certainly upper-middle-class. I guess if I had gone to university in the south and/or been in a fraternity I would have had those formals, but I never went to cotillion or country club events (though my mother did when she was growing up). My point is not to get into a how-rich-am-I-vs-you pissing match, just to try and document 1) what fraction of Southern social life still operates this way 2) how this has changed compared to a generation ago. My impression from my own experience is 1) very little 2) quite a bit. From listening to my mom, it sounded like when she was growing up, all the children of professional families - sons and daughters of doctors, lawyers, bankers, etc., were growing up as you describe (my mom was growing up in the South in the 50's and early 60's, I grew up in a bigger and more liberal town in the late 80s and 90s).

Also seemingly everyone in the South now gets married outdoors and in spring/summer. That's my experience anyway.
post #83 of 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

From the vibe I picked up, it seems a lot of younger guys (my age, plus or minus five years) have a compulsive reaction against dressing in anything that could be construed as old-fashioned.

And this is why:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbonbasted View Post


To be honest I think you'd be surprised. A very, very large number of my friends wear things like seersucker/sack suits and bowties regularly. They wear loafers year-round and adhere to a conservative dress code. They are likely to wear a blue blazer to a bar with pleated khakis and alligator driving shoes.
To me this is quite classic. WASPy? For sure. "Fratty"? Without doubt. Old-fashioned? I think that really depends on your definition. However, I don't think any of my friends could care less about being seen as "cool."
Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbonbasted View Post

Hmm well with your PS example I can say that I wear them to coordinate my outfit. I own many that bring out nuances in my outfits that I really like. Plus I can't stand the idea of having a naked pocket unless the SC/suit is really that busy.
Personally, as a 23 year old I wear things like trousers with cuffs, tassel loafers, braces with my suits, etc. I have been accused of being "old school" or "old man" (or something equally inane) for wearing all of these things at one time or another. However, I wear them because I like them. They catch my eye or are functional or are suitable to a level of formality, etc. I don't think I demonstrate an aversion to "old fashioned" conventions.
post #84 of 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Also seemingly everyone in the South now gets married outdoors and in spring/summer. That's my experience anyway.

This is definitely true, outdoors weddings are much more popular now. Should also note that you still see white tie in the south, though this is rare and fading.
Southerners typically know how to dress up for an event - which is why I was surprised that this was the case for Foo at a DC wedding.
post #85 of 3500
I love to wear black tie. Sometimes I put it on (Yes I own more than one DJ) and my girlfriend puts on a nice dress with her mink stole and we go to the bar, load the jukebox with Depeche Mode and eat chicken wings. I think we even did it during SNOWMagedden last year. Then there was a draft party where I had three minutes to decide what to wear that was black and white... Ding! Black tie. My friends were a bit upset because they were faced with the same problem and would have thrown theirs on as well. In other words, I don't wait for an excuse... I make one. (and the only embarrassment I suffer is having women hand me phone numbers when my ladyfriend is away).
post #86 of 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Squirrel View Post

I love to wear black tie. Sometimes I put it on (Yes I own more than one DJ) and my girlfriend puts on a nice dress with her mink stole and we go to the bar, load the jukebox with Depeche Mode and eat chicken wings. I think we even did it during SNOWMagedden last year. Then there was a draft party where I had three minutes to decide what to wear that was black and white... Ding! Black tie. My friends were a bit upset because they were faced with the same problem and would have thrown theirs on as well. In other words, I don't wait for an excuse... I make one. (and the only embarrassment I suffer is having women hand me phone numbers when my ladyfriend is away).

Are you in DC? Which DC-ers would be ready to stage Occupy Nightlife events wearing tuxes? I stand by my statement that if a few people start doing it, it'll come back. Evening wear FTW.
post #87 of 3500
Never had to wear black-tie myself. Isn't it really just for weddings, first night performances, VIP gala balls, things like the Oscars and 007 these days?
Edited by MikeDT - 11/22/11 at 4:23pm
post #88 of 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Two years ago I wore my black suit and black wholecuts to the opera. I didn't try to make it look like a tux, but it seemed a more appropriate time for a black suit.. It had been a long time since I had remembered going to one when I was young when I wore a typical suit the the opera. I was slightly embarassed that I was going to be underdressed. Then I saw most the people around me looking like they just came from the beach... It was disgusting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjphillips View Post

You would not feel out of place if you attended the Metropolitan Opera in black tie on a Friday or Saturday night. Would guess no more than 20% are in black tie, but people are very dressed up in general, and in party clothes too - velvet jackets, bowties, ascots, etc.
As as Southerner I might be biased, but amongst the well-to-do wedding are almost always black tie (exception: outdoor weddings in warmer months). If you're the type to grow up going to cotillions, country club events, fraternity formals, etc, you would almost certainly own a tuxedo by age 20. Now it wouldn't likely be a very nice tuxedo (my friend calls it a 'fratcedo') and would probably have notch lapels, but you'd get used to the idea of wearing one and would probably upgrade to a proper one around age 25. Goes without saying that the bowtie would be self-tie and would wear a proper shirt with studs, cufflinks, etc.
In my opinion, comfort with wearing a tuxedo is proportional to how often one wears it. If you've worn a tuxedo 3 times in your life you probably think it's stuffy or old-fashioned, but at a certain point you begin to enjoy and look forward to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan Opera FAQ 
What is the dress code?
There is no dress code at the Met. People dress more formally for Galas or openings of new productions, but this is optional. We recommend comfortable clothing appropriate for a professional setting.

We will be seeing La Boheme at the Metropolitan Opera on a Thursday night (not an opening night) and would like to dress appropriately but at the higher end of the scale. I am confused though given the varied thoughts above. confused.gif
post #89 of 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny58 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan Opera FAQ 
What is the dress code?
There is no dress code at the Met. People dress more formally for Galas or openings of new productions, but this is optional. We recommend comfortable clothing appropriate for a professional setting.
We will be seeing La Boheme at the Metropolitan Opera on a Thursday night (not an opening night) and would like to dress appropriately but at the higher end of the scale. I am confused though given the varied thoughts above. confused.gif

I'd go on the advice of the Met itself, maybe wear a suit, or sport jacket and trousers. After all you're there to enjoy the show, you're not going to be on TV or photographed by the press,.The performers won't be able to see you anyway, unless you have a front-row seat.

I went to a couple of operas at Covent Garden, London a while back. I'm sure some people even had jeans and t-shirts on, didn't seem to be a problem.
post #90 of 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny58 View Post

We will be seeing La Boheme at the Metropolitan Opera on a Thursday night (not an opening night) and would like to dress appropriately but at the higher end of the scale. I am confused though given the varied thoughts above. confused.gif

A sportcoat with trousers (would avoid jeans) or a nice suit should be fine. Don't be afraid to be a bit of dandy if you are inclined because it's hard to stick out there. Weekends are more formal than weekday performances.
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