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The State of Black Tie: Your Observations - Page 45

post #661 of 3406
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicmax View Post

This man is fond of your fondness.

Detachable wing collar with white tie; spread collar with tuxedo. With a standard tux, the spread collar with its points tucked neatly under the jacket's lapels permits a super-clean triangle as exemplified by Mr. Craig. White tie is "busier" since the jacket doesn't button and is always accompanied by a vest
Bi-partisan white tie faux pas:

Former President Bush and President Obama both misstep with turn down collars with white tie.
Bush's waistcoat comes down too far, his trousers are too low, and his jacket sleeves too long.
Meanwhile Obama's is a size or two too big.

You are forgetting Obama's obviously pre-tied bow.
post #662 of 3406
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimelesStyle View Post

You are forgetting Obama's obviously pre-tied bow.

AND a normal daytime non starched shirt!!!!!!!!bigstar[1].gif
post #663 of 3406
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicmax View Post

This man is fond of your fondness.

Detachable wing collar with white tie; spread collar with tuxedo. With a standard tux, the spread collar with its points tucked neatly under the jacket's lapels permits a super-clean triangle as exemplified by Mr. Craig. White tie is "busier" since the jacket doesn't button and is always accompanied by a vest
Bi-partisan white tie faux pas:

Former President Bush and President Obama both misstep with turn down collars with white tie.
Bush's waistcoat comes down too far, his trousers are too low, and his jacket sleeves too long.
Meanwhile Obama's is a size or two too big.



personally, I'd rather wear a spread collar with a bow tie than wing collar.


& Obama's jacket fits like shit
Edited by dustinmyself - 10/24/12 at 4:29am
post #664 of 3406
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinmyself View Post

personally, I'd rather wear a spread collar with a bow tie than wing collar.
& Obama's jacket fits like shit

Agreed; I've had wing collar formal shirts before and it's impossible to get the tie to stay in place, I do like the tunnel collar shirts I've seen, but they only work if you have a bow that separates in the back to be strung through.

However, I'd be relatively forgiving of someone who needed to wear both black and white tie and due to budgetary constraints purchased only one shirt (a wing collar). The same can be said for formal trousers, so long as all the materials match (such as ordering from BB or such). In reality, in spite of the fact that one is supposed to have a detachable collar shirt and double-roped trousers for white tie the only items that really have to be exclusive are the jacket and tie (depending on whether you believe a white waistcoat can be worn for black tie, which I believe it can).
post #665 of 3406
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimelesStyle View Post

Agreed; I've had wing collar formal shirts before and it's impossible to get the tie to stay in place, I do like the tunnel collar shirts I've seen, but they only work if you have a bow that separates in the back to be strung through.
However, I'd be relatively forgiving of someone who needed to wear both black and white tie and due to budgetary constraints purchased only one shirt (a wing collar). The same can be said for formal trousers, so long as all the materials match (such as ordering from BB or such). In reality, in spite of the fact that one is supposed to have a detachable collar shirt and double-roped trousers for white tie the only items that really have to be exclusive are the jacket and tie (depending on whether you believe a white waistcoat can be worn for black tie, which I believe it can).


Well, you forget to mention, that in that case you will also fault on single cuffs ( white tie) versus double cuffs for Black tie! bigstar[1].gif
post #666 of 3406
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimelesStyle View Post


Agreed; I've had wing collar formal shirts before and it's impossible to get the tie to stay in place, I do like the tunnel collar shirts I've seen, but they only work if you have a bow that separates in the back to be strung through.
However, I'd be relatively forgiving of someone who needed to wear both black and white tie and due to budgetary constraints purchased only one shirt (a wing collar). The same can be said for formal trousers, so long as all the materials match (such as ordering from BB or such). In reality, in spite of the fact that one is supposed to have a detachable collar shirt and double-roped trousers for white tie the only items that really have to be exclusive are the jacket and tie (depending on whether you believe a white waistcoat can be worn for black tie, which I believe it can).


But the jackets are very different for both. I'm not sure I've seen formal wear sold as separates where one could purchase a pair of trousers that match both dinner jacket and a tailcoat. Without the tailcoat, you cannot call an outfit "white tie."

post #667 of 3406
Quote:
Originally Posted by msulinski View Post

But the jackets are very different for both. I'm not sure I've seen formal wear sold as separates where one could purchase a pair of trousers that match both dinner jacket and a tailcoat. Without the tailcoat, you cannot call an outfit "white tie."

I vaguely remember Brooks Brothers selling a separate tailcoat at one point, but now they only sell a Golden Fleece set. They still sell tuxedo separates. I haven't seen them in person, so I'm not sure if the materials are the same. If so, you could get away with wearing one of their DJs with the Golden Fleece tails pants.
post #668 of 3406
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimelesStyle View Post

Agreed; I've had wing collar formal shirts before and it's impossible to get the tie to stay in place, I do like the tunnel collar shirts I've seen, but they only work if you have a bow that separates in the back to be strung through.
However, I'd be relatively forgiving of someone who needed to wear both black and white tie and due to budgetary constraints purchased only one shirt (a wing collar). The same can be said for formal trousers, so long as all the materials match (such as ordering from BB or such). In reality, in spite of the fact that one is supposed to have a detachable collar shirt and double-roped trousers for white tie the only items that really have to be exclusive are the jacket and tie (depending on whether you believe a white waistcoat can be worn for black tie, which I believe it can).

I'm sorry, but who is it that has both (1) the need for a white tie rig, and (2) budgetary constraints?
post #669 of 3406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrologia View Post

I'm sorry, but who is it that has both (1) the need for a white tie rig, and (2) budgetary constraints?

Those who need them for "work", such as musicians, perhaps. Or those who, like me, may get invited to a white tie event once in their lives but would rather decline than wear a rental. If possible, I'd want to spend as little as possible for the getup and if a coat matching my DJ material were available, that would be preferable to buying the whole thing.
post #670 of 3406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butler View Post

Well, you forget to mention, that in that case you will also fault on single cuffs ( white tie) versus double cuffs for Black tie! bigstar[1].gif

True. However I think one could easily get away with wearing single cuffs for black tie, particularly one such as this, with the pique material cuffs (which look a bit more substantial):

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/Golden-Fleece®-Tuxedo-Shirt-With-Detachable-Collar/498E,default,pd.html?dwvar_498E_Color=WHIT&contentpos=27

As a side note, what are the strips of white cloth to the sides of the bib? Is there something which would attach there? Is it to hold the waistcoat centered? It mentions side chest vents but I cannot figure out what they would be for.
post #671 of 3406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrologia View Post

I'm sorry, but who is it that has both (1) the need for a white tie rig, and (2) budgetary constraints?

I fall into this category. Thankfully my white tie gear is all hand-me-downs, but at some point I would like to get some formal clothes that fit me slightly better.
post #672 of 3406
The chest vents are so that you can slip a hand inside the shirt to help insert the studs without crumpling the bib.

There is a picture here: http://www.blacktieguide.com/Vintage/Vintage_Shirts.htm
post #673 of 3406
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimelesStyle View Post

True. However I think one could easily get away with wearing single cuffs for black tie, particularly one such as this, with the pique material cuffs (which look a bit more substantial):
http://www.brooksbrothers.com/Golden-Fleece®-Tuxedo-Shirt-With-Detachable-Collar/498E,default,pd.html?dwvar_498E_Color=WHIT&contentpos=27
As a side note, what are the strips of white cloth to the sides of the bib? Is there something which would attach there? Is it to hold the waistcoat centered? It mentions side chest vents but I cannot figure out what they would be for.

This is the very traditional set up: the side vent are there so that you can slide one hand in to push the stud in from the back without having to ruin the starched. Bib. The tab at the bottom of the bib has a button hole to be attached to a button inside the trouser so that the bib would always stay straight and not pull up
post #674 of 3406
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcodalondra View Post

This is the very traditional set up: the side vent are there so that you can slide one hand in to push the stud in from the back without having to ruin the starched. Bib. The tab at the bottom of the bib has a button hole to be attached to a button inside the trouser so that the bib would always stay straight and not pull up

Seems a little excessive; not sure how badly it would screw up the bib to attach the studs to the back and then button as normal (with a button-front shirt) or else start at the top, from behind the placket, doing the studs first and the buttons second. Also seems problematic for those men who don't favor undershirts (even though I'd imagine most wear one under a formal shirt since the studs could be uncomfortable).

As an aside, I'd love for more shirts to have that tab to attach to the trousers. As someone who prefers trousers to sit a little lower, my shirts tend to start coming out and I'd love to stop that.
post #675 of 3406

The trouser button attachment is pretty cool. But you would need a button sewn into your trousers for this, right? I've never seen trousers with such a button, but you could have that sewn on pretty easily. It may be tricky having the buttonhole on the shirt placed in the right spot as torso height varies from person to person.

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