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The State of Black Tie: Your Observations - Page 291

post #4351 of 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veremund View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butler View Post

Not correct Sir bigstar[1].gif

@Butler , what or who is the arbiter in such matters for Scandinavia? If I recall correctly, you have ties to Denmark I believe. Could you clarify Bounder's mistaken assertion? I am sincerely curious and would appreciate your insights. smile.gif


I am he! nest.gif

As already mentioned in this thread - it is mainly the occasion that dictates the outfit, not the time of day or season. Season only plays a part, when there are several versions of a given outfit, such as white/black dinner jackets or straw hats.

And yes, I'm danish
bigstar[1].gif
post #4352 of 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butler View Post

I am he! nest.gif

lol8[1].gif

Is there a Danish or otherwise Scandinavian version of Debrett's in terms of etiquette guides?
post #4353 of 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veremund View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butler View Post

I am he! nest.gif

lol8[1].gif

Is there a Danish or otherwise Scandinavian version of Debrett's in terms of etiquette guides?


No - only some ancient ones that have little use in our modern society, which is why I (partly) can make a living out of it. Mostly TV and Film companies who want to make sure that everything is correct - historically and otherwise. Think Downton Abbey (which I was not associated with, though)etc. but also UHNW individuals, these days often russians (!) and would you believe, members of european royalty.
bigstar[1].gif
post #4354 of 4365
@Butler, what's the height of that collar in your avatar?
post #4355 of 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butler View Post

Not correct Sir bigstar[1].gif

Rightly or wrongly, I chose to interpret the last statement rather tongue in cheek - as you go to the far north after October it's always evening, except for maybe an hour in the morning :-)
post #4356 of 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butler View Post

No - only some ancient ones that have little use in our modern society, which is why I (partly) can make a living out of it. Mostly TV and Film companies who want to make sure that everything is correct - historically and otherwise. Think Downton Abbey (which I was not associated with, though)etc. but also UHNW individuals, these days often russians (!) and would you believe, members of european royalty.
bigstar[1].gif
Interesting, I would have thoughts European royalty and international diplomat would have people in their team that follow the continue evolution of etiquette and diplomacy, at both local and international level, like http://www.diplomacy.edu/courses/Protocol

In Italy for example the subject of "Galateo" or "Bon ton" is still very much an important subject in middle and upper class. Young girl approaching marriage age, were very often given modern version of "Galateo", like the still relevant "Il saper vivere di Donna Letizia".
Also, in Italian military educational school/university, the subject is still taught and considered very relevant. My older bother attended the Italian Naval Accademy, and was the subject of jokes from us younger brothers when he came home and behaved very formally, and for example still when I was getting married and I asked him for his opinion on what to wear, his first question was "are you thinking of wearing a "frac" (Italian for full dress)? Then he asked me "a "tait" then? But I told him I would settle for a '"mezzo tait" as I was thinking of a small wedding.
post #4357 of 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaggedyDandy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butler View Post

Not correct Sir bigstar[1].gif

Rightly or wrongly, I chose to interpret the last statement rather tongue in cheek - as you go to the far north after October it's always evening, except for maybe an hour in the morning :-)

Rightly. The Nobel Prize ceremony is in Stockholm in December and the sun sets at something like 3:00.
post #4358 of 4365
Besides all the historical etiquette minutiae, in the US, white tie is fairly archaic and black tie is coopted by proms and daytime weddings. Black tie has probably held on for so long because it is close in styling to a lounge suit and because James Bond has immortalized it and kept it relevant. As long as James Bond is a living franchise, the tuxedo can't go out of style. White tie on the other hand is now probably seen more often in picture books and old cartoons by most people in the US rather than ever in person, making it seem more like a costume than anything.

Shows like Mad Men are responsible for sort of reversing the effects of the counter culture movement by showing that suits don't have to be boring and uncomfortable but can look good. For some reason most people assume dress clothing is uncomfortable.

This revived interest in tailored clothes as well as the continued relevance of debonairre film characters keeps the tuxedo alive in my opinion.

Within the context of western fashion of today, a tuxedo can look both elegant and non-costumey. While most day and evening formalwear will look out of place to a layman in the US, a tuxedo still won't. I think that that is a good thing. Until western fashion has completely moved away from jackets and they are as foreign a concept as tunics and robes are to us, the tuxedo should hopefully stay relevant because it is a non-fussy yet decidedly formal article of menswear. It strikes the balance of elegant, straightforward and subtlety attractive without peacockiness. Things like tails, which have disappeared across all other levels of men's fashion besides formal dress, are going to increasingly seem costumey like one wearing a cape or a frock does now. But the tuxedo will require a real shakeup in the concept of western male non-casual fashion to disappear.
post #4359 of 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butler View Post

No - only some ancient ones that have little use in our modern society, which is why I (partly) can make a living out of it. Mostly TV and Film companies who want to make sure that everything is correct - historically and otherwise. Think Downton Abbey (which I was not associated with, though)etc. but also UHNW individuals, these days often russians (!) and would you believe, members of european royalty.
bigstar[1].gif

TV and film companies are most certainly NOT the source you'd want to reference for ANY kind of accuracy, technical or historical.
post #4360 of 4365
He doesn't get the info from them. He gives it TO them.
post #4361 of 4365

Cross posting from the WAYWRN thread, just because:

 


Saturday evening at the Rosewood Mansion Hotel in Dallas.

post #4362 of 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy57 View Post
 

Cross posting from the WAYWRN thread, just because:

 


Saturday evening at the Rosewood Mansion Hotel in Dallas.

I'm so glad you continue to post in this thread. I used to wear black tie a dozen or more times a year and have three rigs. I had actually planned on getting a double breasted made up as well. Then we had a kid and my social life is going to Target in sweat pants...

 

Ok, that isnt exactly true, but our nights out are now dinner in a suit instead of a dinner suit.

post #4363 of 4365
Deleted post. Sorry.
Edited by brax - 7/29/16 at 4:05pm
post #4364 of 4365
@Andy57, it's great to see you continuing to post black tie rigs. Sadly, however, it's making me realize that I haven't worn my dinner jacket in a year (haven't gotten out much this year). Hopefully next year I can start making up for it. Love the idea of black tie date nights, so I guess I need to find a stylish young woman who can tolerate my presence. smile.gif
post #4365 of 4365
All of my wedding pictures were candid action shots so I don't have much that shows off the dinner suit per se. Here is one that does a decent job:

photo 6330fa56-8907-4a63-b1ca-5b01f3da803b_zpsmliek6j0.jpg

Bespoke suit by Chris Despos. Bespoke shirt by Luca Avitabile. Linen pocket square by Simonnot-Goddard.
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