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The State of Black Tie: Your Observations - Page 288

post #4306 of 4607
Quality, speed, bargain. You can only ever get two out of three.
post #4307 of 4607

A bunch of my accompaniments just arrived today. I ordered Turnbull & Asser barathea silk cummerbund and bow tie. My tuxedo is going to be finished with grosgrain but I prefer barathea to grosgrain for cummerbund/tie and the Black Tie Guide says satin with satin, but barathea or faille or grosgrain all go fine with grosgrain facings.

 

Secondly, and probably something I'm most proud of, my shoes. I ordered Max Verre grosgrain strap patent loafers off eBay. These might be more commonly recognized as the $1300 Tom Ford tuxedo loafers. Well, Max Verre is the maker for Tom Ford shoes, but even so, the eBay listing claims these retail at $1000. I think they are inflating the price to inflate their markdown but some Googling reveals Max Verre is usually around the $800 range. Anyway the point is one of those eBay sellers is selling these shoes for $300. I have no idea how the internet grey market works with regards to this stuff, but the markdown is real. They just arrived and the only thing in bad condition was the original box. The shoes themselves are unworn. I've admired these tuxedo shoes for years but $1300 is absurd. I also was forced to size up as they only had size 10US (I'm size 9US), but the measurements they gave seemed to be the same as my Meermin's in UK8/US9 and they fit perfectly. Honestly sizing normally would have been worse somehow (they also have a very slim "waist").

 

Anyway this is probably one of my best purchases I've found so far. Very pleased.

 

post #4308 of 4607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam H View Post

.....

Secondly, and probably something I'm most proud of, my shoes. I ordered Max Verre grosgrain strap patent loafers off eBay. These might be more commonly recognized as the $1300 Tom Ford tuxedo loafers. Well, Max Verre is the maker for Tom Ford shoes, but even so, the eBay listing claims these retail at $1000. I think they are inflating the price to inflate their markdown but some Googling reveals Max Verre is usually around the $800 range. Anyway the point is one of those eBay sellers is selling these shoes for $300.


Courious to understand what makes you think that these are simply Tom Ford's rebranded shoes?

Max Verre is an Italian designer that gets shoes made in a factory near Naples, not owned by him.

Tom Ford is a US designer/Brand that also have shoes made in a number of Italian factories, not owned by them.

Ferragamo has had a similar model out for some years.

Even if the same factory was making Ford shoes (under Ford design specs), they would not be allowed to make exactly the same shoes for someone else.

I know those factories and have explored the possibility of having shoes made by them on my own bespoke last, and then went with a home based bespoke shoemakers that during the day works as pattern maker for the same factories.
post #4309 of 4607

I'm not sure where the heck to ask this...so I guess I'll try here as it seems to go with the topic a bit...

 

I'm taking my 8 year old daughter to the closing night of an opera in Rome. I thought it might be neat to get her a corsage and perhaps something for my lapel...but... are such things "normal" & "acceptable" at an opera? I can't say that I remember ever seeing it before...but then again, I haven't particularly looked for it either...

 

Thanks in advance....

post #4310 of 4607
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcodalondra View Post

Courious to understand what makes you think that these are simply Tom Ford's rebranded shoes?

Max Verre is an Italian designer that gets shoes made in a factory near Naples, not owned by him.

Tom Ford is a US designer/Brand that also have shoes made in a number of Italian factories, not owned by them.

Ferragamo has had a similar model out for some years.

Even if the same factory was making Ford shoes (under Ford design specs), they would not be allowed to make exactly the same shoes for someone else.

I know those factories and have explored the possibility of having shoes made by them on my own bespoke last, and then went with a home based bespoke shoemakers that during the day works as pattern maker for the same factories.

So basically when doing a search for Max Verre quality having never heard of them, a ton of links (including SF results) pointed to Max Verre being Tom Ford's shoe designer. I suppose maker is wrong word, as the factories in Italy are the makers, but Max Verre is the designer who also designed for TF.

I think these are slightly different from the TF ones (toe seems to be maybe rounder) but the majority of the shoe is the same from the very thin waist to the strap encircling just over the slit of the vamp.

I was also looking into the Ferragamo shoes you mentioned, but none of those have an encircling strap, just a bow-like band.

Ballys does seem to offer an encircling band shoe however so the design is not exclusive.

http://footwearnews.com/2014/business/news/5-questions-for-max-verre-144067/

http://www.styleforum.net/t/343871/thoughts-on-quality-of-max-verre-shoes-for-350-400#post_6272736

http://www.styleforum.net/t/90676/tom-ford-shoes-how-is-quality-fit-anyone-own#post_4065313

Finally the eBay listing described them as "Max Verre Neopolis maker of Tom Ford" which is how I found them. That is definitely a potential marketing pitch but given the sources backing it up I don't doubt it.

Also at the end of the day, I'm not interested in brand names, I just really like these shoes that likely have some legal protection with regards to styling and are extremely expensive. I don't want the loafers because they are Tom Ford or not, I wanted them because I really think they are aesthetically pleasing and the Tom Ford and even Max Verre pricing is just too high. But $300 for shoes even as rarely used as tuxedo shoes that I've admired for 4 years when I always thought they'd be out of my price range is pretty nice win.

Edit: here are some of the listing photographs to clarify the similarity I don't think my photo gets across:

s5cpaO5.jpg
ylbeLaH.jpg

Meanwhile, this post from 2011 on here is probably where I first saw these shoes and thought they looked really nice, so it's my canonical reference to what I wanted. http://www.styleforum.net/t/275561/what-do-we-think-of-these-tuxedo-shoes-help#post_4975481

So to be fair, they are not exactly the same but they are made to the same standards in the same factory and likely both designed by the same person. The ones I have are rounder toed and somehow even more elongated/sleek in the toe.
Edited by Sam H - 6/17/16 at 3:29am
post #4311 of 4607
Quote:
Originally Posted by justonemore View Post

I'm taking my 8 year old daughter to the closing night of an opera in Rome. I thought it might be neat to get her a corsage and perhaps something for my lapel...but... are such things "normal" & "acceptable" at an opera? I can't say that I remember ever seeing it before...but then again, I haven't particularly looked for it either...

I believe a small red or white carnation or blue cornflower in your boutonnière would look very nice indeed.
Edited by Veremund - 6/17/16 at 6:53am
post #4312 of 4607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veremund View Post


I believe a small red or white carnation or blue cornflower in your boutonnière would look very nice indeed.

 

Agreed. As to "normal", likely not so much. I was at opening night of a production at the Met Opera in February, and counted a handful of proper black tie, and again as many in some "interpretation" of black tie. None had a boutonniere (though I did try for one, but it was last minute and the florist didn't set it up properly for a buttonhole).

 

As to "acceptable", absolutely! You may be the only one (or in very limited company), but that doesn't make it wrong. And if your daughter has one, ever the better that the two of you are making an effort for a special occasion. That's what matters the most, not what everyone else is doing. I'm looking forward to times like this with my daughter as well. She's 2-1/2 now, so I've got some time to go yet...

post #4313 of 4607
First Mr. Ned fitting. The pants fit better than any pants I have ever owned (never had pants made before just jackets) and the jacket is coming along nicely smile.gif
post #4314 of 4607
Question: If I wear a white dinner jacket (with navy blue tux pants), do I still wear black cummerbund? The bow tie is black. Also what is marcella front you guys are talking about? I have no idea what it is even after putting into Google image.

My wedding is coming up and I plan to wear midnight blue tuxedo (black bow tie/white or ivory picket square) for the beginning part of the wedding, then switch out the navy jacket to the white dinner jacket.

Thoughts and suggestions?
Edited by jakejake - 6/19/16 at 12:27am
post #4315 of 4607
Navy? Not midnight blue?
post #4316 of 4607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veremund View Post

Navy? Not midnight blue?

Hi, it's midnight blue.
post #4317 of 4607
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakejake View Post

Question: If I wear a white dinner jacket (with navy blue tux pants), do I still wear black cummerbund? The bow tie is black. Also what is marcella front you guys are talking about? I have no idea what it is even after putting into Google image.
 

 

Yes, you need a cummerbund or some other form of waist covering, like a waistcoat. A marcella front is a pique cotton fabric. The idea behind is is that the little pockets of the pique holds more starch. That's the theory, anyways.

 

Out of curiosity, why are you switching out the dinner jacket? What's the point?

post #4318 of 4607
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakejake View Post

Hi, it's midnight blue.

Yes, wear a black cummerbund. It makes for a more elegant look covering the waistband of your trousers and elongating the torso.
post #4319 of 4607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy57 View Post

Yes, you need a cummerbund or some other form of waist covering, like a waistcoat. A marcella front is a pique cotton fabric. The idea behind is is that the little pockets of the pique holds more starch. That's the theory, anyways.

Out of curiosity, why are you switching out the dinner jacket? What's the point?

Thank you!

As for switching out to another jacket, it's just to keep things interesting. The wedding will be in tropical area, and I prefer the white dinner jacket. I've been debating if I should just do the white dinner jacket throughout the event, but I have't found one that has a good fit for me yet. The bride will also be changing her dresses.
post #4320 of 4607
I was at a PhD ceremony the other day in Amsterdam and the candidates were in white tie, tails and all. Made for quite the event.
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