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The State of Black Tie: Your Observations - Page 3

post #31 of 489
11/22/11 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Also, any suggestions for other events where at least there's a chance someone else might wear a tux?

I think there are some cruise lines (Cunard, maybe?) where black tie is required at dinner on at least some of the evenings.
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post #32 of 489
11/22/11 at 1:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tj100 View Post

I think there are some cruise lines (Cunard, maybe?) where black tie is required at dinner on at least some of the evenings.

I thought that used to be the case on most of the cruise lines?
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post #33 of 489
11/22/11 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

I'm way too 99% to answer that very well, but black tie events I've been invited to include: weddings (obviously), charity dinners, embassy dinners, and school/alumni-related events.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tj100 View Post

I think there are some cruise lines (Cunard, maybe?) where black tie is required at dinner on at least some of the evenings.

ah, true enough. still though median age on those things is like 65 right?
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post #34 of 489
11/22/11 at 1:20pm
I think weddings are a lost cause for me in this regard...I can't recall the last time I went to a wedding and a guest was wearing a tuxedo. I have been forced into terrible and gauche tuxedos as a groomsmen, but even at these, no guest wore a tux. I would feel like a douche going as a guest and wearing a tuxedo that looked much better than anything the groom or groomsmen were wearing.
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post #35 of 489
11/22/11 at 1:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

I think weddings are a lost cause for me in this regard...I can't recall the last time I went to a wedding and a guest was wearing a tuxedo. I have been forced into terrible and gauche tuxedos as a groomsmen, but even at these, no guest wore a tux. I would feel like a douche going as a guest and wearing a tuxedo that looked much better than anything the groom or groomsmen were wearing.

I wasn't suggesting you go to any random wedding in black tie. Some weddings are stipulated black tie.

We did our own wedding non-black tie precisely because I felt people would generally look and feel better in their best suits.
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post #36 of 489
11/22/11 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

This is depressing. Sounds like the day will come when a plain black suit is more correct than a proper dinner jacket.

I fear this is all too true. The onus is on those that know how to do it properly to be an example for others, if they're willing to learn from us.

I play violin in an amateur orchestra, so I wear my (brand-new) dinner suit 5 or more times per year as well as go to a few other black-tie events.

In the orchestra (and this is by no means confined to Vancouver), most of the men wear black suits with normal white dress shirts and pre-tied bow ties, and wear normal black shoes (many being rubber-soled and square-toed).

Now, with amateur musicians, I have a lot of sympathy...they are often not high-income earners (although some of us do ok).

Also, Vancouver is the home of fleece at the opera and Lululemon as casual weekend shopping/dinnerwear, so I really don't have high expectations anywhere I go.

All I can do is dress appropriately for the function I'm attending and hope that other show enough interest to follow in my footsteps, when they're ready. Perhaps this will catch on.
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post #37 of 489
11/22/11 at 1:31pm
There are some dinner/country/social clubs that require black tie for certain events.

Foo I understand your distaste of breaking the rules or undertaking non-traditional ideas without an end-game in mind, but I'm afraid I just don't take myself or my dressing that seriously. While I know there are people on here, yourself obviously included, who live and die by such thinking, I will likely never be in that camp. If that makes me 99% so be it; I'm just here to have fun, or at least my idea of fun. If that's not your idea of fun then I suppose to each his own. Next round of drinks are on me.

Unbrelragazzo makes a good point about adhering to the rules making you stand out more than breaking the time-tested rules. It's a sad but true realization and I will admit makes my "rule breaking" far less pronounced or even relevant. As I said I think my next tux will be as conservative as possible. This, however, will likely not come about until my wedding. I'll probably even have another one made up for my second wedding. Just for fun.
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post #38 of 489
11/22/11 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

I wasn't suggesting you go to any random wedding in black tie. Some weddings are stipulated black tie.
We did our own wedding non-black tie precisely because I felt people would generally look and feel better in their best suits.

No, I completely understand - I was just saying that I haven't been invited to any wedding that stipulated black tie. Even the ones where the wedding party was in black tie, none of the guests were.
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post #39 of 489
11/22/11 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Essex View Post

All I can do is dress appropriately for the function I'm attending and hope that other show enough interest to follow in my footsteps, when they're ready. Perhaps this will catch on.

Keep fighting the good fight, CE.
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post #40 of 489
11/22/11 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

This is depressing. Sounds like the day will come when a plain black suit is more correct than a proper dinner jacket.


 

That day came a while ago.

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post #41 of 489
11/22/11 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Keep fighting the good fight, CE.

Every day. It's a marathon, not a sprint.
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post #42 of 489
11/22/11 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

This is depressing. Sounds like the day will come when a plain black suit is more correct than a proper dinner jacket.

This is probably so.

Men are dressing less formally everyday.

With the exception of "society" charity balls, most charity dinners have downgraded from a policy of "black tie" to "business attire". Some have even stated "festive attire", whatever that is.

In the past your average guy has always found black tie to be a hassle. E.g., buying a tux which may get little use, having to use shirt studs, and getting the various accessories (tux shirt, suspenders, shoes, etc.)

As a result, most men do not know the rituals of black tie. It is a result of decreased usage.

It is interesting to note that increased informality has not only affected men. The ladies have gotten less formal. E.g., the "cocktail dress" is seen more often than a gown at all but the most expensive events.
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post #43 of 489
11/22/11 at 1:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbonbasted View Post

Foo I understand your distaste of breaking the rules or undertaking non-traditional ideas without an end-game in mind, but I'm afraid I just don't take myself or my dressing that seriously. While I know there are people on here, yourself obviously included, who live and die by such thinking, I will likely never be in that camp. If that makes me 99% so be it; I'm just here to have fun, or at least my idea of fun. If that's not your idea of fun then I suppose to each his own.

The point is that it isn't just about you. When you've been invited to a black tie event, you've been invited to enjoy another's hospitality and requested to comply with a certain level of formality in exchange. That's why the "rules" here are so important--they are not just about what's aesthetically sensible, but about what's socially respectful and considerate. It would be just as rude to show up at a costume party without a costume.

You can have all the fun you want with how you dress when you're the one throwing the party.
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post #44 of 489
11/22/11 at 1:40pm
I regularly see men in traditional black tie at the orchestra and the opera on Saturday night. They look great and not at all out of place. If only the slobwear crowd would catch on! Most men actually look very good in decent black tie.
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post #45 of 489
11/22/11 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seitelman View Post

Men are dressing less formally everyday.

While semi-formal dress has seen a steady decline, I don't think the same is true for business wear. It seems that more people wear jackets and ties to work now, or even out at night, than 5-10 years ago.
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