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The State of Black Tie: Your Observations - Page 174

post #2596 of 3381
Do any of you think that the state of black tie will continue to evolve? Meaning, that what most of us here consider the proper black tie may or will eventually change in years to come. There are many ways to assemble a proper black tie attire but we know it didn't begin with all those options at its conception (cummerbund or vest, black or midnight navy, etc.) The attire is a derivative of the white tie for semi formal events and now, in most cases, has replaced white tie as the equivalent of formal.

Will we eventually see the lack of waist coverings, two button jacket configuration, etc. taking over to what we currently consider as proper black tie?
post #2597 of 3381
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyarkies View Post

Do any of you think that the state of black tie will continue to evolve? Meaning, that what most of us here consider the proper black tie may or will eventually change in years to come. There are many ways to assemble a proper black tie attire but we know it didn't begin with all those options at its conception (cummerbund or vest, black or midnight navy, etc.) The attire is a derivative of the white tie for semi formal events and now, in most cases, has replaced white tie as the equivalent of formal.

Will we eventually see the lack of waist coverings, two button jacket configuration, etc. taking over to what we currently consider as proper black tie?

 

It will, doubtless, continue to evolve in some way.  It's hard to say what will happen.  We saw the four in hand tie become nearly standard for several years, but it is now fading away in favour of the classic bow tie.

 

I really wonder what will happen with waist coverings.  I think a lot depends on what people now in their 20's think of formality when they get to be 35, and 45.  I believe a resurgence is going to come, rejecting the "newer is better" motto that is, right now, dwindling in popularity.

post #2598 of 3381
I think that many of the derivations of black tie (more than one button on SB jackets, lack of waist covering, long ties, notch lapels, etc.) are largely based on ignorance and people equating a tuxedo as just a different type of suit when in fact it is closer to a different type of tailcoat. I think it is more likely that the tuxedo will just fade away into oblivion (even more than it already has) and men will just wear dark suits in the evening than the state of black tie will devolve much further.
post #2599 of 3381
It's evolving right now. Waist coverings will become anachronistic. The notch lapel will be the default. As will flapped pockets. No reason to give in to it, but the writing is on the wall.
post #2600 of 3381
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

It's evolving right now. Waist coverings will become anachronistic. The notch lapel will be the default. As will flapped pockets. No reason to give in to it, but the writing is on the wall.

 

One could easily have said that about bow ties seven, or eight, years ago.  Hope remains!

post #2601 of 3381
I attend a couple of clubs where black tie events are held regularly.

Those of a different generation adore the occasion that is black tie and on the whole look as they should. Those fellow members see the tradition without appreciating why but still buy in to it. Their guests, not familiar or au fait, come notched, flapped and skinny tied!

The tide is high!
post #2602 of 3381


From the current Brooks Brothers catalog.
post #2603 of 3381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Veen View Post



From the current Brooks Brothers catalog.

 

But is this indicative of evolution, or current trend?  I'm sure the majority of their Tuxedos are sold to wedding parties, and young people often want the latest thing.  One has to know where one's bread is buttered.

post #2604 of 3381
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

It's evolving right now. Waist coverings will become anachronistic. The notch lapel will be the default. As will flapped pockets. No reason to give in to it, but the writing is on the wall.

Notch and flap is mostly about ignorance. The people wearing notch, flap, 2-button, vented tuxedos likely did not give any thought or notice to those details. Lack of waist covering is either an issue of comfort or perception of stuffiness/old-manishness. It's in the category of the pocket square. Most men don't wear one, but there are plenty that care enough to wear one either poorly (matching with the tie; giant red or white silk poufs; compare the 5-button tuxedo vest) or well (compare the low cut vest or cummerbund).
post #2605 of 3381
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImTheGroom View Post

But is this indicative of evolution, or current trend?  I'm sure the majority of their Tuxedos are sold to wedding parties, and young people often want the latest thing.  One has to know where one's bread is buttered.

Given the hems on the trousers, I'm going with current trend. Based on my BB Fitzgerald suit, those are styled in a way to make them look slimmer than reality. Getting a BB house tailor to hem pants like that would be like pulling teeth. I had to be very insistent just to get a quarter break and 1.75" cuff instead of the default half+ break and 1.5" cuff.
post #2606 of 3381
I find it interesting when people say that black tie has changed significantly over the last century and so current changes are just part of that evolution. The only changes I can think of that became part of the standard black tie kit is the turn down collar shirt and the cummerbund came around fairly early in the 20th century. The white dinner jacket is a warm weather option but not considered part of a basic kit. So unless I'm missing something the tuxedo hasn't "evolved" over the years as some people defending current trends state.
post #2607 of 3381
It's already been perfected. Any changes now would just be for the sake of change in itself. But there will always be people who know better and will stick to the gold standard.

And with Peter's great work free for all on the Internet, a lasting resource will always be available for those willing to learn that gold standard.
post #2608 of 3381
The old fogey's standard you mean. Nothing is ever perfected in dress and change is inevitable.
post #2609 of 3381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Veen View Post


Notch and flap is mostly about ignorance. The people wearing notch, flap, 2-button, vented tuxedos likely did not give any thought or notice to those details. Lack of waist covering is either an issue of comfort or perception of stuffiness/old-manishness. It's in the category of the pocket square. Most men don't wear one, but there are plenty that care enough to wear one either poorly (matching with the tie; giant red or white silk poufs; compare the 5-button tuxedo vest) or well (compare the low cut vest or cummerbund).

post #2610 of 3381
Quote:
Originally Posted by culverwood View Post

The old fogey's standard you mean. Nothing is ever perfected in dress and change is inevitable.

 

Spoken like an Englishman, what what!

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