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The State of Black Tie: Your Observations - Page 93

post #1381 of 3651
You might think that such an event would have been a white-tie affair, but evidently not. The trend to casual has even reached the high levels of royalty.

Two of my Dutch cousins were friends with Princess Marijke/Christina when she was young. There were a lot of cruel rumors back then that the princess was retarded. These were quite false. She was visually impaired, but she was (and presumably still is) quite intelligent and witty.
post #1382 of 3651
Re: Mr. Porter's recommendation

The thin lapels, small shirt collars, and skinny ties are appalling. I never understood why they exist in the first place.
The whole combination looks so anaemic and anorexic. I cringe whenever someone sports them and think they are so 'in' fashion.
post #1383 of 3651
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post

You might think that such an event would have been a white-tie affair, but evidently not. The trend to casual has even reached the high levels of royalty.

Two of my Dutch cousins were friends with Princess Marijke/Christina when she was young. There were a lot of cruel rumors back then that the princess was retarded. These were quite false. She was visually impaired, but she was (and presumably still is) quite intelligent and witty.


These pictures are from the dinner the night before which quite correctly was a dinner jacket affair (specifing long dress for the women).

On the day of the main event an amazing large majority was dressed correctly in formal day wear; Morning Coat. bigstar[1].gif
post #1384 of 3651
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post

You might think that such an event would have been a white-tie affair, but evidently not. The trend to casual has even reached the high levels of royalty.

I do not think it is a trend to casual but a new form of formal. White tie has become so rare and almost archaic that referring to black tie as semi-formal any more is living in the past. Just my point of view which many I know will not agree with.
post #1385 of 3651
As Butler said above, the Black Tie dinner was a pre ceremonial one. The actual signing of the documents was in morning attire, and the formal religious swearing in, was in white tie

See pictures here:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dutch+king+willem&client=safari&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=1HmBUcmmEari4QSMwIGoBA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=672#biv=i%7C2%3Bd%7CN5ytJmfwgOR8rM%3A
post #1386 of 3651
I see that His Majesty King Willem-Alexander is wearing white tie for his inauguration ceremony. (I gather it is not called "coronation" in Holland.) I further note that his vest (waistcoat) is visible beneath his lapels. I can recall President Bush getting some flak from the i-Gentry for that gaffe a few years back.

Interestingly, Hitler wore full white-tie attire for the ill-starred Munich Beer Hall Putsch of 1923. I don't know whether his vest also extended beneath his lapels. If not, it is a sad commentary on the decline of civilization over the the past 90 years that a vulgar and vicious demagogue could rock white tie better (as he attempted to pull off a revolution, no less) than a POTUS or a king of a respected and popular dynasty.
post #1387 of 3651
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post

I see that His Majesty King Willem-Alexander is wearing white tie for his inauguration ceremony. (I gather it is not called "coronation" in Holland.) I further note that his vest (waistcoat) is visible beneath his lapels. I can recall President Bush getting some flak from the i-Gentry for that gaffe a few years back.

Interestingly, Hitler wore full white-tie attire for the ill-starred Munich Beer Hall Putsch of 1923. I don't know whether his vest also extended beneath his lapels. If not, it is a sad commentary on the decline of civilization over the the past 90 years that a vulgar and vicious demagogue could rock white tie better (as he attempted to pull off a revolution, no less) than a POTUS or a king of a respected and popular dynasty.
there are other pictures of King Willem where is posing alone with a corridor behind him, and the from quartes of his evening tails cover all white waistcoat. My theory is that the white, backless, marcella waistcoat may tend to ride down the front if not properly secured, hence some time it looks ok and other doesn't
post #1388 of 3651
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post

I see that His Majesty King Willem-Alexander is wearing white tie for his inauguration ceremony. (I gather it is not called "coronation" in Holland.) I further note that his vest (waistcoat) is visible beneath his lapels. I can recall President Bush getting some flak from the i-Gentry for that gaffe a few years back.

Interestingly, Hitler wore full white-tie attire for the ill-starred Munich Beer Hall Putsch of 1923. I don't know whether his vest also extended beneath his lapels. If not, it is a sad commentary on the decline of civilization over the the past 90 years that a vulgar and vicious demagogue could rock white tie better (as he attempted to pull off a revolution, no less) than a POTUS or a king of a respected and popular dynasty.

I am not a historian, but my recollection is that this was, at one time, a dictate of fashion, rather than correctness but people fixated on a particular fashion becoming correct. In other words, the mere fact that the waistcoat points show below the coat points does not make the rig badly fitting. At worst, it would be anachronistic or archaic.
post #1389 of 3651
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

I am not a historian, but my recollection that this was, at one time, a dictate of fashion, rather than correctness but people fixated on a particular fashion becoming correct. In other words, the mere fact that the lapels are below the coat points does not make the rig badly fitting. At worst, it would be anachronistic or archaic.

I am mostly being guided by Flusser here. Since it is a virtual certainty that I will never have occasion to wear a white tie ensemble, it is of merely academic interest to me. Curiously, I did own a white tie rig for some years, something I inherited from a wealthy relative, along with a morning coat and related gear. I never bothered to have either outfit tailored to fit me, and they eventually fell victim to the moths.
post #1390 of 3651
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

I am not a historian, but my recollection that this was, at one time, a dictate of fashion, rather than correctness but people fixated on a particular fashion becoming correct. In other words, the mere fact that the lapels are below the coat points does not make the rig badly fitting. At worst, it would be anachronistic or archaic.

Astonishingly, it is the left picture that is the original.

post #1391 of 3651
Well, you can't really expect blacktieguide.com to be authoritative on white tie, can you? smile.gif
post #1392 of 3651
The general problem with this is that fashionable women generally think high rise/pleated pants and suspenders = Clint Eastwood old man look. They want an Abercrombie model (quasi-NSFW) silhouette even when the suit is on. Hence the fad of low-rise, flat-front suit pants. They can't see the forest for the trees and understand that suit pants should be designed to look good with the jacket on.

Compare/contrast:





Low rise pants, skinny lapels, short jackets, etc. are just a fad like the high buttoning, 3+ button jackets of the 1990s, and the low, slouchy jackets of 1980s. (Apologies for the tangent.)
post #1393 of 3651

In the process of having a MTM dinner jacket made from Kent Wang. Am waiting to receive the trial suit atm but very excited to pick some details.

 

I'm currently thinking:

 

-Shawl lapel

-1 button

-Midnight blue fabric

-Black satin lapels

-Flat front pants with satin stripe

 

Really keen to get a nice black tie outfit. I love the history of all the little things and how they have gradually merged over time. I do particularly love the smoking jacket influence with the shawl lapel and the use of black tie as an almost everyday form of eveningwear.

post #1394 of 3651


Cross posted in Creepy Sartorial Images.

And yes, there are matching pants.
post #1395 of 3651
Burn it with fire....


But it does not burn!
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