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The State of Black Tie: Your Observations - Page 79

post #1171 of 3223
Quote:
Originally Posted by recondite View Post

Yes, the trousers have braid, which marks them as being formal wear, but you are wrong about the jacket; in my experience, buttons are always covered with fabric on formal wear jackets,

I have never seen any other display of buttons on formal wear except maybe no buttons on a link front smoking jacket with turnback silk faced cuffs.

Of course your experience, may be different than mine. So, when and where have you seen a tux, dinner jacket, or formal tailcoat with buttons of horn, metal, or other that were not covered with silk or other fabric, especially one with self faced lapels?
Both Huntsman and A&S regularly make DJs with polished buttons (as do others, I am sure), though not exclusively so. It is a customer preference. If you want an image, look for one of Bogart in a black DB DJ. It has polished buttons.
post #1172 of 3223
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post


Both Huntsman and A&S regularly make DJs with polished buttons (as do others, I am sure), though not exclusively so. It is a customer preference. If you want an image, look for one of Bogart in a black DB DJ. It has polished buttons.


  I understand, but have never seen one in real life. I am sure I could have them make me one with white mother of pearl buttons at my request as well,

 

So, what would differentiate a midnight blue DB dinner jacket with self faced lapels and horn buttons such as the emperor is wearing from a DB lounge suit jacket with the same features?

post #1173 of 3223
check the sleeve lining
post #1174 of 3223
White dinner jackets are generally self-faced and feature buttons that are not covered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by recondite View Post

Yes, the trousers have braid, which marks them as being formal wear, but you are wrong about the jacket; in my experience, buttons are always covered with fabric on formal wear jackets,

I have never seen any other display of buttons on formal wear except maybe no buttons on a link front smoking jacket with turnback silk faced cuffs.

Of course your experience, may be different than mine. So, when and where have you seen a tux, dinner jacket, or formal tailcoat with buttons of horn, metal, or other that were not covered with silk or other fabric, especially one with self faced lapels?
post #1175 of 3223
Those aren't self-faced. It's really obvious from the light in this image.

post #1176 of 3223
Quote:
Originally Posted by recondite View Post


  I understand, but have never seen one in real life. I am sure I could have them make me one with white mother of pearl buttons at my request as well,

So, what would differentiate a midnight blue DB dinner jacket with self faced lapels and horn buttons such as the emperor is wearing from a DB lounge suit jacket with the same features?

Check the picture again. Those are clearly not self-faced. The shade of black on the lapels is obviously different than the rest of the jacket.
post #1177 of 3223
To quote the gentleman directly, he "is wrong about the jacket". Those lapels are clearly not self-faced.
post #1178 of 3223
Quote:
Originally Posted by recondite View Post

Yes, the trousers have braid, which marks them as being formal wear, but you are wrong about the jacket; in my experience, buttons are always covered with fabric on formal wear jackets,

I have never seen any other display of buttons on formal wear except maybe no buttons on a link front smoking jacket with turnback silk faced cuffs.

Of course your experience, may be different than mine. So, when and where have you seen a tux, dinner jacket, or formal tailcoat with buttons of horn, metal, or other that were not covered with silk or other fabric, especially one with self faced lapels?

Every RL tux available online (Polo and Black Label) uses uncovered buttons:

http://www.ralphlauren.com/product/index.jsp?productId=13233032&cp=1760781.2531885&ab=ln_men_cs1_formalwear&view=99&parentPage=family

http://www.ralphlauren.com/product/index.jsp?productId=16398946&cp=1760781.2531885&ab=ln_men_cs1_formalwear&view=99&parentPage=family

http://www.ralphlauren.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4488816&cp=1760781.2531885&ab=ln_men_cs1_formalwear&view=99&parentPage=family

I don't remember what the Purple Label tuxedos I've seen in the stores have, but they may have been uncovered buttons as well.
post #1179 of 3223
Are single link cuffs OK on a semi-formal shirt with turndown collar?
post #1180 of 3223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Veen View Post

Are single link cuffs OK on a semi-formal shirt with turndown collar?

I like them worn that way.
post #1181 of 3223

Hey gents,

I went to a black tie dinner at a New York social club last night and wanted to share my observations.  There were about 400 people, and because the occasion was sports-related, they were almost entirely male.

 

 

A quick summary of a "correct" semiformal outfit as I understand it: (Click to show)

 

peaked lapels or a shawl collar

single button

waistcoat or cummerbund

patent leather oxfords or opera slippers

 

 

There may have been a few guys wearing all of those things, but the vast majority were not.  That, unfortunately, includes me.  

 

While it would have been nice to see more traditional attire, the only thing that grated on me was the footwear.  That so many of the guest were wearing worn out, moccasin-style loafers was utterly mystifying.

 

Someone observed, perhaps on this forum, that men tend to buy black tie outfits that are too similar to their everyday business suit.  The prevalence of notch lapels, plain shirt fronts, and tired loafers seemed to confirm that.  I hope that we can return to embracing black tie's difference from business wear instead of hiding from it.

post #1182 of 3223
My husband and I just returned from Vienna, Austria, where we attended two formal balls. The time between New Year's Eve (Silvester in Austria) and Lent, a period called Fasching, is ball season in Vienna, and in those two months the Viennese manage to organise well over 300 semi-formal and formal balls in various venues.

Having attended the Ball der Offiziere (Officers' Ball) and the Ball der Pharmacie (Pharmacists' Ball) held on two consecutive nights at the Imperial Hofburg Palace, I am pleased to report that black tie, yes, even full evening dress, is alive and well in Vienna. Of course, the Officers' Ball featured primarily military uniforms (the prize for best mess dress goes to the British cavalry officers), but several retired officers and defence ministry employees chose to come in dinner jackets or full evening dress. The Austrians and the Germans looked very good on the dance floor, but their uniforms are nothing to brag about I am afraid.

The Pharmacists' Ball was almost evenly divided between gentlemen in white and black tie. At both events, I personally saw only a few coloured bow ties, no notch lapels, and most trouser waists were properly covered by cummerbunds or waistcoats (rarely), but as there were well over 3,000 people in attendance at each event, I clearly did not see every single person, and I am positive that there were some atrocities. Nonetheless, the difference to similar, albeit much smaller, events in the Washington, DC region was very obvious. It seems that most Viennese gentlemen own a dinner jacket, and do not need to hire.

I also noticed that the Viennese seem to prefer wing-tipped collars, whilst my dad (Brit) always wore turn-down collared shirts with double cuffs with his dinner suit.

Some other observations: pocket squares are popular, several men wore white gloves, top hats and cloaks on several men at Pharmacists' Ball while queued outside for a taxi. Viennese ladies and gents change shoes and bring a pair of dancing shoes in a separate bag. As a result, you typically see boots peek out from underneath ball gowns or worn with tailcoats, and rubber galoshes over patent leather slippers. Whilst this is perhaps not proper and comme il faut, it enables them to deal with snow/ice whilst waiting for a taxi, walking to the car park or the Naschmarkt for an early 4:30 or 5 am breakfast. Yes, these events typically end at 4 o'clock in the morning, and dancing makes you hungry. An early breakfast is part of the experience, and it would be a shame to ruin one's nice shoes because of snow and salt.

P.S. Virtually everybody can ballroom dance. People tangoed, fox trotted, waltzed, jived and cha-chad accross the floor.

Pictures from Ball der Offiziere:

http://www.szene1.at/event/ball_der_offiziere_2013_wiener_hofburg_wien_innere_stadt_18-1-2013_1-eid329364/photos

Ball der Pharmacie:

http://www.ballfotos.at --> click on Ball der Pharmacie --> Fotos
post #1183 of 3223
Quote:
Originally Posted by trouble View Post

Hey gents,

I went to a black tie dinner at a New York social club last night and wanted to share my observations.  There were about 400 people, and because the occasion was sports-related, they were almost entirely male.

 

 

A quick summary of a "correct" semiformal outfit as I understand it: (Click to show)

 

peaked lapels or a shawl collar

single button

waistcoat or cummerbund

patent leather oxfords or opera slippers

 

 

There may have been a few guys wearing all of those things, but the vast majority were not.  That, unfortunately, includes me.  

 

While it would have been nice to see more traditional attire, the only thing that grated on me was the footwear.  That so many of the guest were wearing worn out, moccasin-style loafers was utterly mystifying.

 

Someone observed, perhaps on this forum, that men tend to buy black tie outfits that are too similar to their everyday business suit.  The prevalence of notch lapels, plain shirt fronts, and tired loafers seemed to confirm that.  I hope that we can return to embracing black tie's difference from business wear instead of hiding from it.

This is exactly why I prefer plain-toe balmorals (in calf, as I don't like patent leather). The cap-toe balmoral is so associated with business wear, but I feel the plain-toe does not suffer from this association, and is also sleeker (which is desirable in evening wear). I also think you can get away with wearing them to work if you absolutely had to, unlike patent leather. Wholecuts might be a viable shoe option as well, though a bit less conservative.

post #1184 of 3223
Quote:
Originally Posted by msulinski View Post

This is exactly why I prefer plain-toe balmorals (in calf, as I don't like patent leather). The cap-toe balmoral is so associated with business wear, but I feel the plain-toe does not suffer from this association, and is also sleeker (which is desirable in evening wear). I also think you can get away with wearing them to work if you absolutely had to, unlike patent leather. Wholecuts might be a viable shoe option as well, though a bit less conservative.

+1. I despise patent leather, so it is either opera pumps (good luck finding those in an 8EEE) or highly shined plain toe balmorals which is what I currently wear. Given how many people show up to black tie events in loafers, bluchers, etc., there's just no way I'd ever feel self-conscious about not having technically proper tux shoes. Everything else about my black tie rig is purely traditional and correct, which is why I don't mind replacing one shiny black shoe with a different shiny black shoe.

I try not to wear them to the office but appreciate that I could if need be.
post #1185 of 3223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Veen View Post

Are single link cuffs OK on a semi-formal shirt with turndown collar?


No! bigstar[1].gif
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