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The State of Black Tie: Your Observations - Page 75

post #1111 of 3359
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

In this day and age, at least in the US, the old codes about "formal" v. "semi" etc. are nothing more than historical curiosities. If you want people to dress a certain way, you have to tell them.

I've been out of this game for almost ten years but as recently as the mid 2000s, an invite from a chancery or embassy of a European country or former British colony still used the old lingo. They would even say "lounge suit" rather that "buisiness attire."

Right, so they would still say what the expected attire was, right? Some people are saying it is rude to do so and it isn't done in Europe--which sounds ridiculous to me.
post #1112 of 3359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

In this day and age, at least in the US, the old codes about "formal" v. "semi" etc. are nothing more than historical curiosities. If you want people to dress a certain way, you have to tell them.

I've been out of this game for almost ten years but as recently as the mid 2000s, an invite from a chancery or embassy of a European country or former British colony still used the old lingo. They would even say "lounge suit" rather that "buisiness attire."



Of course! bigstar[1].gif
post #1113 of 3359
Only in the case of "lounge suit" as I recall. Anything else would be "formal" or "semi-formal." Though, we would get it translated by the social aides. So, they would say "when the Queen says formal she means white tie and tails." And then everybody came and asked me what to wear. smile.gif
post #1114 of 3359
Thread Starter 
I was including terms like "formal" and "semi-formal" under the heading of attire. You wouldn't be expected just to know to wear a tux and you wouldn't have gone off the fanciness of the invitation font . . .
post #1115 of 3359
I was a black tie preferred party last PM and more than 50% of the men showed up in tuxes. So all hope is not lost, yet. However, I did notice a number of notch lapel tuxes. . . facepalm.gif
post #1116 of 3359
Everyone has a spin on it also, they rarely use it in the appropriate or literal sense which adds confusion even if they are technically specifying the attire on the invite. It suggests that it would not be at all incorrect in inquire with someone in the know for the event.
post #1117 of 3359
I will say, I have hope for the my generation and younger, they seem to prefer to be more formal.
post #1118 of 3359
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

I was including terms like "formal" and "semi-formal" under the heading of attire. You wouldn't be expected just to know to wear a tux and you wouldn't have gone off the fanciness of the invitation font . . .
Well, that is true. I went to one white tie state dinner and everyone was like "What the hell???" But because of the Gridiron and Alfalfa dinners in DC, which are white tie, a small amount of awareness hangs on.

Now that I think of it, it's been almost ten years since I wore tails and I expect I never will again.
post #1119 of 3359

I bought a made to measure tuxedo from Armani a few years ago when I got married.  I love the garment, but I have to admit I regret selecting a notch lapel.  The salesman suggested the notch was perhaps more classic and timeless, and while the peak was also good option, "you can't go wrong with the notch".  Not knowing any different, and being more familiar with the notch that's the way I went.  I am lucky if I get to wear a tux at least once a year and I can't see myself replacing it, so I plan to rock my notch with pride.

 

On an unrelated note, I'm curious what SF'rs think about the appropriateness of a formal fly front shirt where the buttons are hidden, as opposed to wearing studs.
 

post #1120 of 3359
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Yeah, that's what I would have thought. I'm not buying this whole thing that people, when in the "correct" circles, would know to wear black tie simply because an event is in the evening. At least, if such circles exist, they are so small as to be useless for instructive purposes here.

Maybe I'm the wrong sort, but I would never wear black tie to an evening wedding without being told to. And I do think it would look incredibly odd if you were the only one outside the wedding party wearing a dinner suit. In fact, I think it would be construed as very rude. For the same reason, I would never wear a flower in my lapel to a wedding unless I was in the party.
.. .
I don't think I travel in particularly rarefied circles, and I can tell you that at many random NYC evening weddings I have been to, there are people in black tie and people who aren't, and that includes weddings where the invitation doesn't specify (which is pretty common). In fact, at the wedding where I was told NOT to wear black tie because I wasn't in the wedding party, there were people not in the wedding party who showed up in black tie.

Certainly, you can get a sense from the venue how dressy an event it is likely to be.
post #1121 of 3359
Thread Starter 
D., I would have assumed your circles are indeed quite rarefied. Maybe you are just too embedded to know it. smile.gif
post #1122 of 3359
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

In fact, at the wedding where I was told NOT to wear black tie because I wasn't in the wedding party, there were people not in the wedding party who showed up in black tie.
This has never happened in the whole history of California.
post #1123 of 3359
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

D., I would have assumed your circles are indeed quite rarefied. Maybe you are just too embedded to know it. smile.gif
I don't think so. It is probably a a result of advancing years, but between friends, family and community, I am certainly exposed to a variety of different weddings. Some are certainly fancier than others, but people in black tie are common enough at fancier "suit' weddings and they don't seem to stick out. I don't meant that people always wear black tie, and I likely wouldn't without asking unless it was obviously a formal type venue, but it isn't that rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

This has never happened in the whole history of California.
I believe that. But what would you wear to an evening wedding at the Pierre if the invitation didn't say anything? Would you be surprised if some people were in black tie?
post #1124 of 3359



* Yes, I know this is not the main ball. Can't find an invitation for that one.













You have to go back to the '50s to find an invite with no dress code.



post #1125 of 3359
Seeing all of those invites is pretty cool, and very informative. Thank you for posting and taking time to find all of those images^^
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