The State of Black Tie: Your Observations



mafoofan said:

From the vibe I picked up, it seems a lot of younger guys (my age, plus or minus five years) have a compulsive reaction against dressing in anything that could be construed as old-fashioned.

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just putting Mad Men on TV seems to have spawned legions of followers and imitators trying to emulate Don Draper's style...

Blackhood said:

feels more like a faux tux story.

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Very much a real tux, Pierre Cardin if I remember rightly, made to measure for me by a lovely and very gay tailor with wandering hands in DC. Oh, you mean the story. Well, it's all true (and a lot more besides). This was 1990 or 1991 BTW. I also wore the same tux at my graduation (from Oxford - sorry, but that's also true) in 1993 but got rid of it soon after as I thought, quite rightly as it has so far turned out, that I would never need it again. Shame really, as it would still fit me...



unbelragazzo said:

just putting Mad Men on TV seems to have spawned legions of followers and imitators trying to emulate Don Draper's style...

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maybe Boardwalk Empire will inspire even more adventuresome business and evening clothing? Many gents in tuxes in the show...



unbelragazzo said:

just putting Mad Men on TV seems to have spawned legions of followers and imitators trying to emulate Don Draper's style...

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I didn't say the reaction was based on any coherent perception. Almost anything trendy at any given time can be associated with some previous historical period, yet everyone concerned with being fashionable tends to overlook that association until the trend has passed.

When dressing in faux-60's style clothing is fashionable, nobody calls it old-fashioned.



mafoofan said:

I didn't say the reaction was based on any coherent perception. Almost anything trendy at any given time can be associated with some previous historical period, yet everyone concerned with being fashionable tends to overlook that association until the trend has passed.

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That doesn't seem to be the case with this one...at least with Banana Republic explicitly marketing a line of clothes as MM-inspired. At least they must think that it doesn't turn off young people.



unbelragazzo said:

That doesn't seem to be the case with this one...at least with Banana Republic explicitly marketing a line of clothes as MM-inspired. At least they must think that it doesn't turn off young people.

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No, the point is that because it is fashionable, nobody views it as old-fashioned, despite its obvious association with a previous time period. Put another way, young people generally stay away from anything that could be called 'old' unless there is a very acute, countervailing social reason.



mafoofan said:

From the vibe I picked up, it seems a lot of younger guys (my age, plus or minus five years) have a compulsive reaction against dressing in anything that could be construed as old-fashioned.

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I'm not sure what you mean by "old-fashioned." Does this statement only apply to black tie? I know that's what this thread is about but your wording makes it seem like a broad stroke.

I also seem to think you refer to "old fashion" as more inclined to being classic, whereas you might use a term like "out of fashion" to describe 1980's lapels or generous shoulder padding, etc.



bourbonbasted said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "old-fashioned." Does this statement only apply to black tie? I know that's what this thread is about but your wording makes it seem like a broad stroke.

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It was meant to be broad. For the same reason, many will not wear pocket squares. To the extent any do, it is largely because they have been convinced they aren't old-fashioned anymore. The point is that "old-fashioned" is generally a liability, not a virtue, amongst twenty- and thirty-somethings.



mafoofan said:

From the vibe I picked up, it seems a lot of younger guys (my age, plus or minus five years) have a compulsive reaction against dressing in anything that could be construed as old-fashioned.

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I actually think that black tie has more support among the young people (<35 years old) than the previous generation. IMHO, it was the boomers' anti-establishment coolness that pushed the tuxedo to the periphery, and I wouldn't be surprised if the current generation brings it back (albeit with some updated "rules").

I think one of the challenges with black tie is that the "rules" we're living with are our grandparents' rules; our parents didn't have the opportunity to evolve them (because their rule was: No Tuxes), so there's a big gap between the stylistic "rules" and where young people are comfortable.

Hmm well with your PS example I can say that I wear them to coordinate my outfit. I own many that bring out nuances in my outfits that I really like. Plus I can't stand the idea of having a naked pocket unless the SC/suit is really that busy.

Personally, as a 23 year old I wear things like trousers with cuffs, tassel loafers, braces with my suits, etc. I have been accused of being "old school" or "old man" (or something equally inane) for wearing all of these things at one time or another. However, I wear them because I like them. They catch my eye or are functional or are suitable to a level of formality, etc. I don't think I demonstrate an aversion to "old fashioned" conventions.



bourbonbasted said:

Hmm well with your PS example I can say that I wear them to coordinate my outfit. I own many that bring out nuances in my outfits that I really like. Plus I can't stand the idea of having a naked pocket unless the SC/suit is really that busy.
Personally, as a 23 year old I wear things like trousers with cuffs, tassel loafers, braces with my suits, etc. I have been accused of being "old school" or "old man" (or something equally inane) for wearing all of these things at one time or another. However, I wear them because I like them. They catch my eye or are functional or are suitable to a level of formality, etc. I don't think I demonstrate an aversion to "old fashion" conventions.

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I was talking about people your and my ages in general, not you particularly. Ask your buddies whether they'd rather look "old-fashioned" or "cool" and see how many prefer the former.

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mafoofan said:

The point is that "old-fashioned" is generally a liability, not a virtue, amongst twenty- and thirty-somethings.

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Because "old-fashioned" also generally means "out of touch" and, therefore, is a liability at an age when social interaction is as important as it is in your 20s and 30s. It is okay to wear something classically styled (a.k.a. Mad Men), but old-fashioned puts you on an island.



F. Corbera said:

I'm about to wear black tie right now for tonight.
I'll wear a DB dinner jacket, but alas, no cummerbund nor Spanx. Old Cartier platinum knot studs. Tiffany gold and sterling knot links.
I'll report back later if there is anything interesting, like Wolverine boots.

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Cartier versus Tiffany knots, in different metals? I can't decide if that's simply next-level mismatching or not-mismatching-enough-so-as-to-appear-accidental.

Why not pick some links that are more thematically differentiated?



mafoofan said:

I was talking about people your and my ages in general, not you particularly. Ask your buddies whether they'd rather look "old-fashioned" or "cool" and see how many prefer the former.

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To be honest I think you'd be surprised. A very, very large number of my friends wear things like seersucker/sack suits and bowties regularly. They wear loafers year-round and adhere to a conservative dress code. They are likely to wear a blue blazer to a bar with pleated khakis and alligator driving shoes.

To me this is quite classic. WASPy? For sure. "Fratty"? Without doubt. Old-fashioned? I think that really depends on your definition. However, I don't think any of my friends could care less about being seen as "cool."