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post #31 of 56

Crossbreds are rarely studied or catalogued so there is very little hard info out there. I have talked to numerous vets who say that they see as many deep genetic health issues in mutts as they do in purebreds. The larger point is that it is good breeding (frankness and openness) that furthers a breed along the road to genetic health and crossbred breeders rarely, if at all, are honest or aware of the health of the animals they are throwing together. 

 

It seems that the GDs are not quite immune from inherited disease: http://goldendoodles.com/health_hereditary/index.htm

 

lefty

post #32 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty View Post

Crossbreds are rarely studied or catalogued so there is very little hard info out there. I have talked to numerous vets who say that they see as many deep genetic health issues in mutts as they do in purebreds. The larger point is that it is good breeding (frankness and openness) that furthers a breed along the road to genetic health and crossbred breeders rarely, if at all, are honest or aware of the health of the animals they are throwing together.

It seems that the GDs are not quite immune from inherited disease: http://goldendoodles.com/health_hereditary/index.htm

lefty


Not to state the obvious, but asking vets what problems they see is a clear form of sampling bias (vets treat sick dogs, not healthy ones other than routine checkups; without looking at the sample of dogs they don't see this is useless data). And of course humans (even doctors) are terrible at statistical inference - it's why we created statistical sampling, double blind testing, etc. in the first place.

The bottom line for me is this: if "responsible" inbreeding for dogs is so great, why don't we allow humans to "responsibly" mate with their offspring too?
post #33 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbrown View Post

Not to state the obvious, but asking vets what problems they see is a clear form of sampling bias (vets treat sick dogs, not healthy ones other than routine checkups; without looking at the sample of dogs they don't see this is useless data). And of course humans (even doctors) are terrible at statistical inference - it's why we created statistical sampling, double blind testing, etc. in the first place.
The bottom line for me is this: if "responsible" inbreeding for dogs is so great, why don't we allow humans to "responsibly" mate with their offspring too?

I see what you did there.
post #34 of 56
Ok, I must admit I clicked on this thread thinking to myself that a goldendoodle must be some kind of sex toy.

I am hoping that there is a slight possibility that it still may be true...
post #35 of 56

You're not following what I'm saying. In short, crossbreeding is not a panacea for genetic health in canines. I would put a well-bred tightly bred purebred over a scattershot cross when it comes to accomplishing what I need. The only reason to add in a complete outcross is if you've bred yourself into a corner and need a genetic trait. That said, I would kill 90% of the purebreds tomorrow if I could and start again. We've created enormous problems due to shitty breeding practices, and a lack of hard testing and culling.

 

Vet conversations were with working dog vets and while hardly definitive did start me looking at the issue a little when I was training bandogs as they kept blowing up on me. A vet was the first one to say to me the HV was a myth.

 

Dogs are not people - I don't want to have that conversation.

 

lefty

 

 

post #36 of 56
Aren't there similar angry discussions about mudbloods and muggles in the Harry Potter books? confused.gif
post #37 of 56
Lefty, I will definitely agree with you that crossbreeding is not a panacea or magic bullet - mutts can certainly have congenital defects, and some purebreds are perfectly healthy. As for the overall state of the dog genetic stock in the US, maybe we need to import some of what my wife and I jokingly call the "universal dog" from the urban streets of India, Africa, etc., to start over. Seriously, besides being generally healthy-looking with no "extreme" features bred in, the "wild" dogs in India are ridiculously well-mannered, never poop on the sidewalk (in fact I have no idea where they go to do their business...) and they know how to cross the street better than most humans!

I will also agree that dogs are not people... That was just a shameless bit of sophistry on my part. smile.gif
post #38 of 56

Pariah dogs are interesting but they tend to make lousy pets and are not terribly tractable. Can be very hand and people shy.

 

lefty

post #39 of 56
^Cool hoof
post #40 of 56
my golden doodle is the best dog someone could ask for. patient, sweet natured, loving, great with kids. he isn't the best behaved around other dogs but i wouldn't trade him for anything.
post #41 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekunk07 View Post

my golden doodle is the best dog someone could ask for. patient, sweet natured, loving, great with kids. he isn't the best behaved around other dogs but i wouldn't trade him for anything.

I will be your dog
post #42 of 56

I have a seven month old goldendoodle and she is just fantastic. Great with my grandchildren. I work and she has no problem accommodating to my working day. I puit some time into training- nothing exotic- not jumping up, soft mouthing - and she is great now.

post #43 of 56

We have a 7 year old standard poodle and recently got a goldendoodle (F1B)!    He is now almost six months old and we wouldn't trade him for anything.    Yes, he is a typical puppy, but he is also the most intelligent dog (even smarter than our poodle).    I did months of research before purchasing.     Got him from a very reputable breeder in middle Florida and he had undergone two weeks of "boot camp" before we picked him up.   He is a chocolate color and probably will be about 50 pounds when grown.    I think the most important thing is to buy from a reputable, experienced breeder. She told us he would be slightly shedding but so far we have had no shedding; we saw his Mom and Dad (Dad was a pedigree standard poodle (parti - brown and white) and Mom was a first generation chocolate goldendoodle.    Other readers have lots of misconceptions about these dogs and they are right in several things - there is no standard and they can have three different types of coats.     Most are non-shedding or low shedding.    Our goldendoodle (breeders call them designer dogs and charge for the rarity) plays great with the grandchildren, gets along well with other dogs, and minds well.     He is house trained and rings a bell attached to the dog when he wants to go outside.    Our vet told us before we purchased the puppy that we could go to the pound and get a puppy much cheaper, but we knew what we wanted.    We think he has hybrid vigor and the breeder had him checked (or his parents) for the most common poodle and retriever weaknesses.   He also has a two year guarantee if he develops any of these diseases, and no, we don't have to return him to the breeder if he does - just provide proof from the vet!

 

We would purchase one again in a heartbeat!    He is unusual looking and people stop us all the time to find out what he is and about his laidback personality.     If that is what your wife wants, I say to for it.!

post #44 of 56

Get a "real" dog? Clearly you are one of those obnoxious and rude folks who doesn't seem to take other peoples's views or opinions into consideration. Goldendoodles & Labradoodles ARE real dogs. Get a clue

post #45 of 56

We have decided to get a dog after our house emptied and did a lot of research on what type to get.  We are expecting a grand child soon and wanted to make sure we had a dog that was good with kids.  Everything we have read and everyone we talk to with Doodles say they are very good with children.  We love that they don't shed, since we have family members with allergies and Doodles hypo allergy coats will work better for that problem.  We also like that you can decide which size Doodle you want to suit your family and there are also many varieties of colors to choose from.  We will hopefully be getting one in the near future.  To summarize...I would love it if my husband would buy me one! 

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