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2006 Porsche Cayman S or 2006 BMW M3 CLS? - Page 2

post #16 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by linux_pro
Put it this way, on my test drive, the sales guy was showing me how to handle the car, and threw it into a sharp hairpin at about 80mph. There was no drift, no over or under-steer, no turbo lag, not even the slightest hint that the car was going to do anything other than eat this corner alive and jump at the next one.
Well, I would hope it had no turbo lag since it's naturally aspirated...

I sold my M3 when I moved to NYC and I still miss that car. They're really fast and very forgiving for a car of that performance level. That said, only you can make this decision. Go drive the M3 and then pick the one you like the best. I suspect either car will provide you with ample opportunities to improve your driving skills.
post #17 of 40
1st rule -- Never let the woman decide on the car. My wife never has a say on what kind of car we drive! I'd go with the M3 CSL if it is indeed a CSL. I'm not a big fan of the Cayman. I've been inside of one and wasn't impressed by its build quality. Also, by the time you add a couple of features, you're awfully close to a 911. At which point, why am I looking at a hardtop boxster??? Good luck!
post #18 of 40
if you must choose between those get the CSL and save some money (I assume you were referring to an E36?)... if you're more of a auto purists and go to the tracks, consider the Evo RS or MR... the caymen has no LSD which really bothers me...
post #19 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayn
if you must choose between those get the CSL and save some money (I assume you were referring to an E36?)... if you're more of a auto purists and go to the tracks, consider the Evo RS or MR... the caymen has no LSD which really bothers me...

The lack of an LSD is not the end of the world. The Caymen is not making 400HP at the rear wheels, so a little throttle modulation goes a long way on the track. However, auto-x is a completely different issue with it's incredibly low speed turns.

I'd go for the CSL, FWIW.
post #20 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by linux_pro
no turbo lag

They dont have turbo.

If you actually mean CSL - buy it.

Also I'm not too sure if you have your speeds down correct. I'm not sure of many cars without LSD that can go into a hairpin at 80mph.
post #21 of 40
To me the cayman is... i can't afford a real porshe therefore I settled for this. (personal opinion of course)

The CSL however ( if it is a CSL and not just an M3 with the available CSL wheels) well...you can't get much better.
post #22 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvEr37
To me the cayman is... i can't afford a real porshe therefore I settled for this. (personal opinion of course)

I think that is a pretty ignorant statement. A Porsche is not a Porsche because of the price tag. It is a finely crafted car or it isn't. I assume a 911 is a "real" Porsche to you, but honestly, that car pretty much defies all logic. It's a rear engine, rear wheel drive car with 4 seats, two of which are completely unusable. The car makes no sense!

To me, the Cayman S is a properly balanced sports car with the engine in the right place and the correct number of seats. It's also not inexpensive, as the car easily options out north of 75k, so it's not an issue of one car being entirely out of reach while the other is cheap. They are both expensive.

I stand by my recommendation of a true blue M3 CSL over the Caymen S, but I give due credit to the Porsche.
post #23 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by briancl
I think that is a pretty ignorant statement. A Porsche is not a Porsche because of the price tag. It is a finely crafted car or it isn't. I assume a 911 is a "real" Porsche to you, but honestly, that car pretty much defies all logic. It's a rear engine, rear wheel drive car with 4 seats, two of which are completely unusable. The car makes no sense! To me, the Cayman S is a properly balanced sports car with the engine in the right place and the correct number of seats. It's also not inexpensive, as the car easily options out north of 75k, so it's not an issue of one car being entirely out of reach while the other is cheap. They are both expensive. I stand by my recommendation of a true blue M3 CSL over the Caymen S, but I give due credit to the Porsche.
Completely agree, except for which car I would take (of course this is all farcical, since the CSL was not available stateside), because I personally think that the Cayman S is a better overall sports car than the M3. It’s a lot more tout and precise, whereas the M3 needs to be driven with brutish force to get it going where you want it to go. Drive and M3 and a Cayman, and see which one is easier to corner, which one goes exactly where you want it to go…because it won’t be the M3. The Cayman is such a well designed car that Porsche purposely made the first and last gears taller than the 911’s which makes the car slower and gave it no LSD so that it wouldn’t corner faster and better than a 911. In reality, for the 21st century, the Cayman should be Porsche's 'everday' flagship car. Jon.
post #24 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by imageWIS
because I personally think that the Cayman S is a better overall sports car than the M3.

Agreed.

Quote:
It's a lot more tout and precise, whereas the M3 needs to be driven with brutish force to get it going where you want it to go. Drive and M3 and a Cayman, and see which one is easier to corner, which one goers exactly where you want it to go...because it won't be the M3.

I've never driven a CSL M3, but I've driven the US Spec E46 M3 and Cayman S, and again, I agree with your assessment; however, I would still pick the M3 CSL (should it be available). Not everyone wants a 2-seater. I like the spaciousness and practicality of the M3; however if I could have two cars, I'd have both an M3 and probably a Lotus, but if it's just one, and the choices are M3 CSL v Cayman S, I'd take the M3 CSL.

Quote:
The Cayman is such a well designed car that Porsche purposely made the first and last gears taller than the 911's which makes the car slower and gave it no LSD so that it wouldn't corner faster and better than a 911.

I'm still not 100% with you guys on the LSD argument. The open diff on the rear axle would be sending power to the path of least resistance, which would be the wheel with the least traction, or the inside rear wheel while cornering. Too much throttle during the corner means some wheel spin on the inside rear, but just the right amount of throttle means power through and no wheel spin. The LSD would make the car easier to drive faster, but without, it is still a competent car. For anyone who has driven one, you'll agree with me that the Cayman S is far from overpowered, so with 8" or wider rubber, you should not be having major wheel spin problems on the track. If Porsche updates the S with more power and/or a revised power band, then I could see the need for the LSD.

Also, the cost of adding a Torsen type diff (most of the benefits, least of the maintenance worries) is not high, compared to the cost of the car and the cost difference between the Cayman S and 911's. And, although this should go without saying, but on the steet you will not see any benefit from the LSD. You'll probably end up with a car more prone to understeer by just slapping an LSD on the car and driving around the street.
post #25 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by imageWIS
It's a lot more tout and precise, whereas the M3 needs to be driven with brutish force to get it going where you want it to go.

Maybe, if you're a professional race car driver who can consistently hold the car at 10/10ths. Mere mortals like us still have to drive the M3 very smoothly to get it to do half of what it can do.

--Andre
post #26 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Yew
Maybe, if you're a professional race car driver who can consistently hold the car at 10/10ths. Mere mortals like us still have to drive the M3 very smoothly to get it to do half of what it can do.

--Andre

What? In an M3, when you are very aggressively taking a corner you have really punch it to hold it together, while the Cayman does it more precisely, you simply guide it to where you want it go and there it goes, whereas the M3 feels like an untamed animal. Maybe I should just stop cornering at 50+ mph?

Jon.
post #27 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by imageWIS
What? In an M3, when you are very aggressively taking a corner you have really punch it to hold it together, while the Cayman does it more precisely, you simply guide it to where you want it go and there it goes, whereas the M3 feels like an untamed animal. Maybe I should just stop cornering at 50+ mph?

There is no car in the world in which you would want to "punch it" to hold it together in a corner. In fact, that's a very good way to become unraveled in a corner.

--Andre
post #28 of 40
Isn't this a question of what you prefer? As other's have noted, don't worry about the GF. Buy an impractical car while you still can.

It sounds like you really love the Cayman. It also sounds like it has gone through a lion's share of its depreciation. The very fact that you're asking the question indicates that it may, in fact, be worth the extra $ to you. If so, be courageous man, and get that car.

If you verify that the BMW is the CLS and you test drive it to similar satisfaction, then sleep on it. In the morning if you feel good about the M3 save your money, if you are still thinking of the Cayman, get what you really want.
post #29 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Yew
There is no car in the world in which you would want to "punch it" to hold it together in a corner. In fact, that's a very good way to become unraveled in a corner.

--Andre

Well, not coming into a corner, but speeding up at the end of it to slingshot around is a very handy trick (prominently first used by Fangio, if memory serves).

Jon.
post #30 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by briancl
I think that is a pretty ignorant statement. A Porsche is not a Porsche because of the price tag. It is a finely crafted car or it isn't. I assume a 911 is a "real" Porsche to you, but honestly, that car pretty much defies all logic. It's a rear engine, rear wheel drive car with 4 seats, two of which are completely unusable. The car makes no sense!

To me, the Cayman S is a properly balanced sports car with the engine in the right place and the correct number of seats. It's also not inexpensive, as the car easily options out north of 75k, so it's not an issue of one car being entirely out of reach while the other is cheap. They are both expensive.

I stand by my recommendation of a true blue M3 CSL over the Caymen S, but I give due credit to the Porsche.

I did state that it was a personal opinion so the ignorant part was pretty much uncalled for. To me, as you mentionned, a 911 is the only porsche. Cayman is a boxster with a roof. Among other things, Boxter's don't hold there value; and though it still remains to be seen, same thing will probably happen to the cayman. A CSL on the other hand....

Anyways, I really don't want to get into a chevy vs ford kind of argument over this, I was just stating an opinion which I believe was what the original poster was looking.

Cheers
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