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Law Schools - Where and Why? - Page 21

post #301 of 418
Came across this today, quite informative article about lawsuits over job placement rates. Separately, I recall reading somewhere reliable that the self-reported salaries fresh graduates submit tend to be inflated a bit (primarily because of self-selection: mostly those who have jobs AND well paying jobs at that, are the ones reporting salaries. I guess those working for non-profits or temping aren't as eager to share).

http://chronicle.com/article/Lawsuits-Over-Job-Placement/131163/
post #302 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by retronotmetro View Post

When you consider the manipulation of self-reported statistics and the fact that some deans arrange quid pro quo peer rank boosting with their buddies, the USNWR rankings make the BCS look objective.

+1 .... lol8[1].gif
post #303 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebichuman View Post

Came across this today, quite informative article about lawsuits over job placement rates.
http://chronicle.com/article/Lawsuits-Over-Job-Placement/131163/

interesting and ironic as well... good post Ebichuman.
post #304 of 418
While I feel bad for those who can't find full time employment but suing is not going to help and good luck getting employed afterwards

Economy blows right now. Article is right; join the countless other grad schools and undergrad graduates with no job and stop going to law school
post #305 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomkoreandude View Post

While I feel bad for those who can't find full time employment but suing is not going to help and good luck getting employed afterwards
Economy blows right now. Article is right; join the countless other grad schools and undergrad graduates with no job and stop going to law school

Whether or not to do this really depends on the law school that you're attending. I can't imagine that someone graduating from a t-14 would have to face the same issues.
post #306 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaio View Post

Whether or not to do this really depends on the law school that you're attending. I can't imagine that someone graduating from a t-14 would have to face the same issues.

almost certainly not, but that's a very small percentage of applicant's that gets into a t-14 or thereabouts. however, for those attending NYLS, Cooley, NKU, CWSL, Thomas Jefferson, Cleveland State to name but a few, prospects are highly limited. and the debt taken on is not substantially different from that owed had they been able to graduate from a better school (even a decent tier 2 or anything in the top 100). to say the least there is some disingenuous reporting coming from some of these schools (I experienced some of it myself from one of my safeties!)
post #307 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaio View Post

Whether or not to do this really depends on the law school that you're attending. I can't imagine that someone graduating from a t-14 would have to face the same issues.

i have quite a few that have not found employment at georgetown and many more that have settled
post #308 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomkoreandude View Post

i have quite a few that have not found employment at georgetown and many more that have settled

in light of the recent article of students suing, i just need a little clarification. you mean your peers have taken up work that pays less or is in some way less than what they expected?
post #309 of 418
law school. worst idea ever. smh.
post #310 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAMOR View Post

in light of the recent article of students suing, i just need a little clarification. you mean your peers have taken up work that pays less or is in some way less than what they expected?

What I think he means is that some have taken work that doesn't pay as well as they expected, isn't full time, or is temporary employment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheessus View Post

law school. worst idea ever. smh.

Law school is fine if it's your primary goal while in undergrad. I think most of the students that are struggling to pay off student loans are those that majored in liberal arts/social science (not bashing, I am one) and only decide to go to law school when they realize that their degree means very little and most likely won't get them a high-paying job.
post #311 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaio View Post

What I think he means is that some have taken work that doesn't pay as well as they expected, isn't full time, or is temporary employment.
Law school is fine if it's your primary goal while in undergrad. I think most of the students that are struggling to pay off student loans are those that majored in liberal arts/social science (not bashing, I am one) and only decide to go to law school when they realize that their degree means very little and most likely won't get them a high-paying job.

Ehh, law school was my undergrad goal but I did not take undergrad as seriously as I should have. Still kicking myself over that.
post #312 of 418
didn't read this thread, too long but:

i turned down t14 at sticker (woulda put me in around ~280k debt over three years) for a good school in my region on a full ride. if you are considering law school, understand one thing and one thing only: your lsat score is the only thing that matters so you better bust your ass to get the highest score you can. the diff. between a 165 and a 166 is substantial. the difference between a 166 and a 172 might be $125,000 in scholarships. study. hard.

law school itself is the hardest thing i've ever done. basically you see the same 70 people every single day, 5 days a week. you are graded on a curve so it's like...if you are working hard, and someone else is working harder, it can be unsettling. law school is basically high school with an insane workload, a bunch of assholes who already think they are attorneys, and one exam per class that decides your entire semester's worth of work.

if you are SET on going to law school, get into a top school or get a fat scholarship. if you can't manage to do that (i had sub 3.0 GPA), then there's a pretty good chance you will not succeed in law school in the first place and you won't get a good job as an attorney.

understand 280k debt is $15,000 in INTEREST alone per year. so if you get the market 160k (which most won't), your take home pay is how much? 120k, maybe? deduct 15k from that in interest alone per year....

it is a scary, scary, serious commitment. it worked for me but who knows
post #313 of 418
Sorry, coming late to this thread. Did OP get LSAT score?

Anyway, as someone in their mid-40s who's been working for several decades as a journalist (meaning I've seen a lot of things and met a lot of people from all walks of life), I think the utility of a law degree BEYOND THE LAW is not all that apparent at first.

I've met tons of people who are using their law degrees in fields like medical administration, entrepreneurship, investment advising, development, law enforcement etc.

If you think you can handle the debt (easier w/o family etc), then I think law school -- any accredited school -- is worthwhile.

Also, some of the most interesting lawyers I've met were those working as prosecutors and public defenders. There are some debt-forgiveness programs out there, I believe, if you aim for public-service law work like that.

Plus, frankly, the law is a fascinating subject. I was admitted to a top regional school fresh out of college, but declined when I realized I wanted to study the law more than actually BE a lawyer.

My .02
post #314 of 418

Regarding the job market for recent law school graduates, I have seen some analysis that I cannot quickly find and cite here but that might be relevant anyway.

 

First, I have seen a report that demonstrates that there are two market rates for law school graduates.  For the upper tier associates at Big Law firms, the market rate beginning salary is around that $140,000-160,000 that so much is written about.  If a new graduate does not get into that market, then the other market rate is somewhere around $45,000-$55,000 +/-  per year.  If one were to create a graph illustrating the distribution frequency of starting salaries, there would appear to be two bell-curves side by side.  Jobs with starting salaries between the high $150K range and the low $50K range are surprisingly infrequent.

 

Second, I have also seen some people suggest that there is wisdom to going to a school where you are more likely to graduate at the top of your class rather than going to a more prestegious school if, at the end of the process, you will graduate at the bottom of the more prestegious class.  Of course, graduating at the top of a T-14 school is the best of both worlds.

 

The best advice that I can give anyone is to 1) make absolutely certain that they work harder during the first year than they have ever worked, 2) make sure to have a job lined up for the summer after the first year, and finally 3) get involved in worthwhile activities with people whom you enjoy.  In other words, do it right and make friends.

post #315 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAMOR View Post

in light of the recent article of students suing, i just need a little clarification. you mean your peers have taken up work that pays less or is in some way less than what they expected?

settled as in some who wanted big law firm ended up going for government work, others who went to regional or "home" state medium sized law firms, and a few that have no jobs altogether and are forced to stay an extra year/semester for an LLM!!!

and this is at a T14 (now t13 smile.gif )
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