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Law Schools - Where and Why? - Page 19

post #271 of 418
hmmm... I don't know exactly from one school to another but some of the worst and notoriously difficult curves are found in the lower ranked schools.. like lower 2nd tier on down. There's a lot of 1L attrition down there!
post #272 of 418
Now that I think about it, the curve doesn't matter as much if you are applying into Big Law, as Big Law recruiters have separate GPA cut-offs for each school. But for a smaller firm who may not be as savvy with the inflation games that law schools play, an inflated 3.6 from a Top 20 school might look a lot better than a 3.3 at a lower tier school, even though the students might be equally smart.
post #273 of 418

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post

My heart breaks for you. It really does. You're so stupid and you have no idea.

Anyone who has BEEN to law school will tell you how foolish you are and how wrong your thinking is. LS isn't necessarily more difficult, it's just way more random. Prof doesn't like you in first year torts and gives you a C? Good bye corporate law! It's that simple.

There is no margin of error in law school, especially at the mediocre schools you're applying to.

 

Well, I'm in law school, and I don't think he's as foolish as you make out. I didn't check OP's undergrad major, and there is truth to the notion that many UG majors are just not too hard and may give a false impression as to the difficulty of law school. I certainly don't think it is random -- law school is the polar opposite of random. It is a lot of work, and you have to have a certain flexibility of mind, and be comfortable with both the details  (mind numbing details!) as well as the big picture. To some extent you have to be able to subordinate your sense of reason to how the law operates (these things do not necessarily cooperate).

 

Your comment about the Prof 'liking' you makes me wonder what your experience relative to law school is -- most grading is anonymous, and in a class like Torts, as you posit, the criticisms of how that veil may be pierced by, say, knowledge of an individual student's writing, really don't apply.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sns23 View Post

normally you don't have a choice.


It seems that the tenured Profs play a little fast and loose with the curves. The policies of the law schools that I have read do not impose a curve, they just "recommend" a particular curve.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

I don't want to talk you out of law school. Well, I do sort of, because the profession is already overcrowded to say the least. But I love being a lawyer. Not the prestige or the money, because there's not that much these days. And I should note that I work for myself. If I were still working for a firm then I might be miserable.

If practicing law is definitely what you want to do, then you will do it for cheap and the struggle at every level won't bother you. If you are the type of person who knows that he wants to practice and will do anything to get there, then law school is really your only choice. If you are looking for "success" or money or anything like that there are MUCH better things you could do with your time and money.


This is a good post.

 

There are a lot of paths through law school, but the one that everyone hears about and that creates the most (but not all!) disillusionment is the right-out-of school $125k+ jobs at BigLaw firms. A lot of students who have been influenced by a cultural stereotype of law school believe that is waiting for them at the end of the Bar exam rainbow. And while they all 'know' that that's not available for all, and even when they 'know' they are not performing at  a level adequate to attain that, well, law students are far vainer of their luck than their merits. If the OP is only going into 30k debt to go to law school, that may well be a less foolish decision than a lot of undergraduate degrees.

 

~ H

 

post #274 of 418
If he can get through law school with 30k in loans, I don't see the big deal with him going. The only weird thing is how convinced the OP is about his success there particularly with struggling with his LSAT performance.
post #275 of 418
Thread Starter 
It's been stated in here that LSAT performance has little correlation with the actual practice and study of law. It's the ticket in, but not super-critical to the practice itself.
post #276 of 418
agreed! 98 percentile on my lsat but straight B's in grades lol (did a lot of traveling through law school)

thank god i landed my biglaw gig after my 1L summer

edit: i got very lucky and am extremely fortunate. i am the exception, not the rule. do not do what i did
post #277 of 418
I know some very successful lawyers who either made shitty grades or went to TTT schools. They tend to be litigators and have ambition, hustle, street smarts and good business sense.
post #278 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Argentino View Post

It's been stated in here that LSAT performance has little correlation with the actual practice and study of law. It's the ticket in, but not super-critical to the practice itself.

Some relation, but certainly not determinative. I entered my school with an lsat about a point below the median of my entering class (which actually was not too bad for taking the test cold). Ended up with 20 A's, 2 B+'s and a B.
post #279 of 418
EDIT: never mind. good luck with law school dude.
post #280 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomkoreandude View Post

agreed! 98 percentile on my lsat but straight B's in grades lol (did a lot of traveling through law school)
thank god i landed my biglaw gig after my 1L summer
edit: i got very lucky and am extremely fortunate. i am the exception, not the rule. do not do what i did

hey Random.. we spoke before.. congrats on the gig! I'll be sure no travel plans!! smile.gif
post #281 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Argentino View Post

It's been stated in here that LSAT performance has little correlation with the actual practice and study of law. It's the ticket in, but not super-critical to the practice itself.

however, not getting in = no practice.
post #282 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Argentino View Post

That's all fine. I won't disagree with that. It's always stupid to borrow huge sums of unrepayable money.
However, my law school fees most likely won't be reaching that high. BYU (first choice) will come to 30K max over 3 years. A school as low as UNLV will more than likely offer me a decent aid package to attend. UofU has already sent me scholarship offers (before I even applied). Others I've been feeling out to see what I can get. I'm not diving into this as blinded by the stars as you continue to accuse me.

It's all about the money. If you can do it without mortgaging your future, I bid you good luck.
post #283 of 418
Time for a little update.

Am I crazy for thinking about going to George Washington with little to no scholarship? Holy balls cost of living is expensive. Total estimated cost of attendance is somewhere around $220k.

But, of the schools I've gotten into, they might have the best employment numbers (2009):
1.6% unemployed, 11.2% part time.

Compared to say, UC Hastings:
11.3% unemployed, 18.1% part time.

I also have about a 50% tuition scholarship to WUSTL, so it'll end up being the cheapest option. Still, it's only cheaper by a total of about 30k compared to BU, UCI, UCH, UW.

Does it come down to merely geographic preference at this point? Fuck I'm lost. I've been staring at employment numbers all day.
post #284 of 418
congrats on getting into some great schools. here are my thoughts, for whatever they're worth.

a) quarter mil on law school is a ridiculous amount of money
b) if you rely on the scholarship, plan a budget scenario under which you lose the scholarship after your 1L year. scholarship programs are just set up that way--maybe 1/2 of incoming students get scholarships but only the top 1/3 or 1/4 keep them.
c) a good buddy of mine graduated from wustl law in '11 and (although he hates being a lawyer) is doing pretty well for himself...in missouri.
d) employment numbers are total b.s.; i wouldn't use them to make a decision. talk to a decent sample of current 3L's and recent graduates and find out what the situation really looks like.
post #285 of 418

I got some money from GW, but I could not accept the debt. I just couldn't, even though GW is a great place to be for patent.  I also pretty much assumed that the employment numbers are massively skewed, but that the relative employment comparisons one could make would likely be correct.

 

I am surprised, though, if GW accepted you and WUSTL gave you 50%  that you also didn't get some pretty good offers from others. In my US News (2009, still on my desk since then, talk about a blast from the past to see my annotations), WUSTL is 19. I would suggest that if you got an offer from a school that you like, but that wasn't quite enough, that you simply write them and ask for more. Worked for me -- I disclosed what I had been offered from other schools to my target school and they upped. Some schools even upped when I wrote in my regrets, which was pretty cool.

 

How many schools did you apply to?

 

~ H

 

edit: nerdykarim has a good point about scholarship loss. Look at every offer to see what you need to pull to keep the scholarship -- some of the ones I was given were really  restrictive.

 

edit2: I should also have offered my congrats! I remember getting my LSAT score, and later, my first accepatance. But, 3 years later, and really struggling to continue to apply the massive effort required amidst the strife of life's obstacles is just....rough.

 

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