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Law Schools - Where and Why? - Page 10

post #136 of 418
I cannot believe that anyone is contemplating law school right now.

with few exceptions,
THERE IS NO WORK FOR ENTRY LEVEL LAWYERS
THERE IS NO WORK FOR ENTRY LEVEL LAWYERS
THERE IS NO WORK FOR ENTRY LEVEL LAWYERS
THERE IS NO WORK FOR ENTRY LEVEL LAWYERS
THERE IS NO WORK FOR ENTRY LEVEL LAWYERS

Do something else unless your soul compels you to be a lawyer.
post #137 of 418
Acceptances are rolling in. I'm pretty set on law school now.

What does conventional wisdom say about attending a school around the T20 vs a regional T30?

Say I want to practice in the Bay Area, attend UC Hastings or Irvine or go to best school, something like WUSTL?
post #138 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by skitlets View Post

Acceptances are rolling in. I'm pretty set on law school now.
What does conventional wisdom say about attending a school around the T20 vs a regional T30?
Say I want to practice in the Bay Area, attend UC Hastings or Irvine or go to best school, something like WUSTL?

Unless you are going to a GREAT school (T14 is the common standard, duh) with national reputation and prestige, I can't see why you'd skip Hastings, Davis, or Irvine (You can get in there? Good on you!) if your long term plans are to stay in California. Heck, do you really think WU will get you a better chance than, say, Santa Clara (this is about as low as you could reasonably go, and that is probably not even on your radar screens)?

I'm not licensed in CA, but I know enough who are and several others who tried, and failed, to pass the CA bar. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I recall that out of state passage rates for CA are quite low. Maybe another factor weighing against going elsewhere if you are just going to come back and try to get a job.

Where did you apply again?
post #139 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzito View Post

Unless you are going to a GREAT school (T14 is the common standard, duh) with national reputation and prestige, I can't see why you'd skip Hastings, Davis, or Irvine (You can get in there? Good on you!) if your long term plans are to stay in California. Heck, do you really think WU will get you a better chance than, say, Santa Clara (this is about as low as you could reasonably go, and that is probably not even on your radar screens)?
I'm not licensed in CA, but I know enough who are and several others who tried, and failed, to pass the CA bar. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I recall that out of state passage rates for CA are quite low. Maybe another factor weighing against going elsewhere if you are just going to come back and try to get a job.
Where did you apply again?

I got need and merit based fee waivers, so I applied to a ton of schools. I'm not concerned with passing the CA bar based on where I attend school. I don't think any of the universities I'm thinking of attending really teach towards it.

Yes, ultimately I want to practice in the Bay Area. I grew up here, my family and my girlfriend reside here. I didn't apply to Santa Clara although I'm thinking I should for financial aid leverage. The question I posed in my previous post really is just a hypothetical. I haven't heard from the majority of schools and financial aid information will not be released for any couple of months for the schools that did accept me. I'm just having fun thinking of the possibilities, making a choice will be easier once I have all the cards in hand.
post #140 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post

Bankers start by doing bitch work and terrible hours but at the end of the rainbow (managing director level) for those who make it are literally riches beyond their wildest dreams. MDs at big banks can take home literally tens of millions of dollars, not to mention exit options that are as lucrative. Making partner at a place like Skadden or WLRK is probably as hard as doing it at Goldman Sachs but the pay is far, far below what you would make as an investment banker. The payoff just isn't the same, period.

Only if you define payoff solely by financial remuneration. Most law students are not under the illusion that they will be making investment banker money even in the best-case scenario; they want to save the world and/or get up in court and argue like the lawyers on The Practice and The Good Wife. Neither is likely to happen, but that's an entirely different discussion.
post #141 of 418
and only a handful of bankers make that type of money. Many more lawyers make great salaries in the high 6 figures.
post #142 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by skitlets View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzito View Post

Unless you are going to a GREAT school (T14 is the common standard, duh) with national reputation and prestige, I can't see why you'd skip Hastings, Davis, or Irvine (You can get in there? Good on you!) if your long term plans are to stay in California. Heck, do you really think WU will get you a better chance than, say, Santa Clara (this is about as low as you could reasonably go, and that is probably not even on your radar screens)?
I'm not licensed in CA, but I know enough who are and several others who tried, and failed, to pass the CA bar. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I recall that out of state passage rates for CA are quite low. Maybe another factor weighing against going elsewhere if you are just going to come back and try to get a job.
Where did you apply again?

I got need and merit based fee waivers, so I applied to a ton of schools. I'm not concerned with passing the CA bar based on where I attend school. I don't think any of the universities I'm thinking of attending really teach towards it.

Yes, ultimately I want to practice in the Bay Area. I grew up here, my family and my girlfriend reside here. I didn't apply to Santa Clara although I'm thinking I should for financial aid leverage. The question I posed in my previous post really is just a hypothetical. I haven't heard from the majority of schools and financial aid information will not be released for any couple of months for the schools that did accept me. I'm just having fun thinking of the possibilities, making a choice will be easier once I have all the cards in hand.

If you are set on practicing in the Bay Area, I'd go with Hastings over a non T-14 just based on local reputation and network, unless you had a huge scholly offer somewhere. Just know that you are going to have to kick ass on your grades to get a job out of Hastings. Historically the biglaw grade cutoff at Hastings has been around top third, but I think it has crept much higher these days.

I would pass on Irvine if Hastings was in the mix. It may well end up being a great school, but nobody knows how to assess it yet and there won't be any real network in the Bay Area for a long time. Years from now it will be great to look back and say you were one of the trailblazers of a top school, but that won't pay your bills in the meantime. Davis had the same problem for years.

I don't think many schools make it a point to deliberately "teach toward the bar" in CA. It's mostly a multistate test, and the CA-specific areas (community property) are easily covered in bar prep. I think that the clinical/practical focus of some CA schools might give their students a small advantage on the performance sections of the bar, but it isn't a huge edge.
post #143 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by retronotmetro View Post

If you are set on practicing in the Bay Area, I'd go with Hastings over a non T-14 just based on local reputation and network, unless you had a huge scholly offer somewhere. Just know that you are going to have to kick ass on your grades to get a job out of Hastings. Historically the biglaw grade cutoff at Hastings has been around top third, but I think it has crept much higher these days.
I would pass on Irvine if Hastings was in the mix. It may well end up being a great school, but nobody knows how to assess it yet and there won't be any real network in the Bay Area for a long time. Years from now it will be great to look back and say you were one of the trailblazers of a top school, but that won't pay your bills in the meantime. Davis had the same problem for years.
I don't think many schools make it a point to deliberately "teach toward the bar" in CA. It's mostly a multistate test, and the CA-specific areas (community property) are easily covered in bar prep. I think that the clinical/practical focus of some CA schools might give their students a small advantage on the performance sections of the bar, but it isn't a huge edge.

Thanks for the insight, especially the comparison to Davis. Davis is ranked higher than Hastings but the employment numbers are nearly identical, which makes sense given the relative newness of Davis. The employment numbers for Irvine have looked very promising, despite the lack of an alumni network. I think they placed the highest % of clerks outside of HYS.

I'll just have to sit tight and see how scholarships and acceptances pan out. Hastings hasn't even begun sending out acceptances.
post #144 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLester View Post

I cannot believe that anyone is contemplating law school right now.
with few exceptions,
THERE IS NO WORK FOR ENTRY LEVEL LAWYERS
THERE IS NO WORK FOR ENTRY LEVEL LAWYERS
THERE IS NO WORK FOR ENTRY LEVEL LAWYERS
THERE IS NO WORK FOR ENTRY LEVEL LAWYERS
THERE IS NO WORK FOR ENTRY LEVEL LAWYERS
Do something else unless your soul compels you to be a lawyer.

+1. Forgive me if this has already been covered, but even if you're one of the "lucky" ones who gets into a great school and finishes high enough to get a job that will allow you to pay your school loans and live decently, said job will be very unpleasant. If you're truly set on law school, go to the one that will cost the least.
post #145 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by sns23 View Post

Don't go to law school unless you want to be a practicing attorney. If not yet deterred, go to the highest ranking school possible. Do not bother going if you do not get into a top 100 school.

I agree, but would limit that to top 10.
post #146 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sns23 View Post

Don't go to law school unless you want to be a practicing attorney. If not yet deterred, go to the highest ranking school possible. Do not bother going if you do not get into a top 100 school.

I agree, but would limit that to top 10.

That is a bit silly.
post #147 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by sns23 View Post

That is a bit silly.

Disagree - top 10 if you want to be able to pay down your debt and actually make some money by having, you know, a job.

Otherwise you will be scrambling to be top 3-5% at a lower tier school to get the job that the guy with gentlemen C's at Harvard wouldn't even look at.
post #148 of 418
^ I thought that we spent 10 pages to discuss the exact same thing. Are we going to discuss it again?
post #149 of 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambulance Chaser View Post

they want to...get up in court and argue like the lawyers on The Practice and The Good Wife.

This is basically what I do. icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #150 of 418
Suits ftw
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