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Homeland on Showtime. - Page 17

post #241 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwazer View Post

Ah makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Technical question, in reality could a car explosion do that much damage in the finale?!

Yes...

But it is TV so they make it even more dramatic.....
post #242 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwazer View Post

Technical question, in reality could a car explosion do that much damage in the finale?!

Non-technical answer. . . yes.
post #243 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwazer View Post

Technical question, in reality could a car explosion do that much damage in the finale?!

Good question. Probably depends on the amount and type of explosives (which I think they mentioned), but that wouldn't have much meaning for me.
post #244 of 359
I thought this show was excellent, right up until the point that Brody went home after being turned by the CIA. After that, there were a few exciting scenes but they basically sold out all of the characters to get to those scenes. To the point, where I lost interest.

There were things that bothered other people that didn't bother me at all. For instance, Brody was texting to Abu Nazir from the control room where they were watching a kill team get the terrorist in their sights. Or Brody was on the phone with Nazir from the Vice President's office. Ridiculous, sure, but its an action TV melodrama, so fine. Plus, the basic character of the VP was that he was a phony and a blowhard, so it seems kind of fitting that, in actuality, the security around him was really dysfunctional.

But all of the main players began acting so ridiculously stupid (and counter to character), that it was no longer fun. For example, a deputy director at the CIA was running a US Congressman as a double agent to trap the leading terrorist threat to the US w/o either monitoring him 24/7 or even bothering to inform anyone at a higher level. Implausible, fine, but why on Earth would they do such a stupid thing. No reason. But worse, the deputy director (David Estes) had previously been established as an unctuous careerist who would do anything to help his superiors. But all of a sudden he was doing the opposite for no reason at all.

Then, this character Quinn, who after being established as a "soldier", brought in to be a no questions button man to execute Brody, turns 180 degrees and not only refuses to kill a known terrorist but decides on a whim to become his guardian angel, threatening to kill a high ranking CIA official if any harm might befall his special loved one. The reason was that he decided that Capt. Winters was a straight shooter who had kept his word. Well, pretty much. Except for all those times he went off the grid. Plus, you know, that time he was found alone in the vice-president's office standing over the vice-presidents dead body, which was a bit of a coincidence especially since he had confessed to being on a mission to kill the vice-president. But still, except for that he seemed cooperative, so it totally makes sense that a ruthless killer would devote his entire life to protecting him.

Then, the lead character, who has been established as a character who has obsessed to the point of madness over her failure to stop the 9-11 attacks or save her translator from execution in Iraq, witnesses the murder of 200 Americans, many of who she must have known and worked with over the course of a decade, and decides that the most probably culprit is completely innocent by "seeing into his soul." So certain is she of his innocence that she decides that she must help him flee the scene and the country, without even bothering to check if she might help any of the dozens, hundreds, or thousands of people who must have been injured in the attack. Of course, immediately upon returning from this unexplained disappearance she is herself offered a job as a top level executive.

Not only is that behavior ridiculous and counter to character, but its positively evil. I'm certain that if I watched this show again, I would be rooting for the putative antagonists to catch Carrie and Brody and kill them and be disappointed.

(Plus it was obvious that the actors were so whipsawed by these ridiculous twists, that the acting was terrible)
post #245 of 359
"the acting was terrible" ?
post #246 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by AldenPyle View Post

But all of the main players began acting so ridiculously stupid (and counter to character), that it was no longer fun. For example, a deputy director at the CIA was running a US Congressman as a double agent to trap the leading terrorist threat to the US w/o either monitoring him 24/7 or even bothering to inform anyone at a higher level. Implausible, fine, but why on Earth would they do such a stupid thing. No reason. But worse, the deputy director (David Estes) had previously been established as an unctuous careerist who would do anything to help his superiors. But all of a sudden he was doing the opposite for no reason at all.

I would imagine given the events of season one, it would look bad for Estes career wise if it came out that Brody was actually a terrorist and Carrie was right. In this way his actions to keep it quiet make sense as a careerist.
post #247 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by AldenPyle View Post

Then, this character Quinn, who after being established as a "soldier", brought in to be a no questions button man to execute Brody, turns 180 degrees and not only refuses to kill a known terrorist but decides on a whim to become his guardian angel, threatening to kill a high ranking CIA official if any harm might befall his special loved one. The reason was that he decided that Capt. Winters was a straight shooter who had kept his word. Well, pretty much. Except for all those times he went off the grid. Plus, you know, that time he was found alone in the vice-president's office standing over the vice-presidents dead body, which was a bit of a coincidence especially since he had confessed to being on a mission to kill the vice-president. But still, except for that he seemed cooperative, so it totally makes sense that a ruthless killer would devote his entire life to protecting him.

Who is Captain Winters? Do you mean Brody? My feeling was that Quinn did this more out of respect/consideration for Carrie than for Brody. If she wasn't involved with him then he probably would have just killed him.
post #248 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post

"the acting was terrible" ?
Acting was incredible in season 1 and even better in first half of season 2. Then, terrible. Actors can't be blamed. No one could sell that. For instance, the scene where Brody is begging Abu for Carrie's life. That was idiotic. The entire fulcrum of this show is the ambiguity of Damian Lewis performance. When the mask drops and you can see him on screen trying to figure out who he is supposed to be playing, its over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradstudent78 View Post

I would imagine given the events of season one, it would look bad for Estes career wise if it came out that Brody was actually a terrorist and Carrie was right. In this way his actions to keep it quiet make sense as a careerist.
In that circumstance, having Brody killed immediately might make sense. A creature of the VP running a wild operation further implicating the VP which dozens of people knew about w/o informing the VP makes no sense. And this isn't being picky. The whole tension of this drama depends on us being unsure of what people's motivation's are. We are supposed to wonder if this guy is mole or that guy is a terrorist or that guy is working for F. Murray Abraham. When this guy or that guy is just an idiot , all drama is gone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradstudent78 View Post

Who is Captain Winters? Do you mean Brody? My feeling was that Quinn did this more out of respect/consideration for Carrie than for Brody. If she wasn't involved with him then he probably would have just killed him.

Even worse. You have to be kidding. [Damian Lewis is Captain Winters in Band of Brothers]
post #249 of 359
I see what you mean - but (as you point out) it's some of the writing that is at fault, not really the acting.
post #250 of 359
Anybody ever seen the original Israeli series, Prisoners of War? I just downloaded season 1.
post #251 of 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by AldenPyle View Post

Acting was incredible in season 1 and even better in first half of season 2. Then, terrible. Actors can't be blamed. No one could sell that. For instance, the scene where Brody is begging Abu for Carrie's life. That was idiotic. The entire fulcrum of this show is the ambiguity of Damian Lewis performance. When the mask drops and you can see him on screen trying to figure out who he is supposed to be playing, its over.

Isn't that the problem with being a double agent, you don't really know where your loyalty lies especially in this case?

For all we know, Brody could still be on the terrorists side somehow.
post #252 of 359

You must have missed episode 204 where Saul comes over to David Estes' house and shows him the Brody suicide recording and they discuss why they must run Brody off-book, totally secret group, outside the CIA, because they can't tell the VP about Brody with the suicide vest (in the final episode of season 1) wherein Brody planned to blow him up but didn't because of the phone call from Dana.  The condition that Estes places on the matter is bring in his own guy, who turns out to be Peter Quinn.... so Estes agrees to follow Brody and see who his contacts are...

post #253 of 359

loved it, but i'm slightly prejudiced since I am the editor on that episode.

post #254 of 359
But it was mentioned by Brody I think or someone that Abu Nazir could have been just a pawn in a bigger plan. After capturing Abu Nazir, the CIA "let their guard down" in a midst of a greater attack.

Brody could still be a part of that greater attack.
post #255 of 359
Golden Globe wins for Homeland, Lewis and Danes icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
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