Crockett & Jones for Ralph Lauren Cordovan (Marlow, Darlton, Gifford, Garran, Lindrick, McCallum, Rh



Master Milano said:

How does crockett and jones for RL compare to the normal C&J? Also how does it compare to edward green and such?
Thanks for the reply

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You've been a member for just as long as I have... and you don't know this?



SpooPoker said:

You've been a member for just as long as I have... and you don't know this?

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I started off in this part of the forum but migrated to SW&D after some of the older users stopped posting, so I'm not really in the loop . Also I've never worn high quality MC (do duckie brown for Florsheim count) shoes so I'm not really sure what to look for in order to distinguish between the good and the bad. In any case, mind helping or do I have to officially put up the spoo-signal?

Basic breakdown of high end shoes please

Master Milano said:

I started off in this part of the forum but migrated to SW&D after some of the older users stopped posting, so I'm not really in the loop

. Also I've never worn high quality MC (do duckie brown for Florsheim count) shoes so I'm not really sure what to look for in order to distinguish between the good and the bad. In any case, mind helping or do I have to officially put up the spoo-signal?
Basic breakdown of high end shoes please

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You're talking to the right person Milano, (Spoopoker), but if you want a 2nd opinion, and since you're in New York, why don't you saunter over to Leffot and have a little browse, and, if you are not impressed to death, or, if you don't buy anything he has on offer, I will pick up the tab! Deal?

Gents, I am thinking of buying a pair of Marlow (either wingtip/tassel/penny). I have a pair of RL Sanderson wingtip in US8D which is really tight on toe area(even after 10 wear). I am a TTS US8EEE. Should I get US8.5 for Marlow wingtip ?
I also have a pair of RL Singleton Loafer in US8D which was extremely tight around toe area. And after 10-15 wear they loosened up and fit snug. For marlow penny / tassel should I size up to US 8.5D ?
Also both RL shoes are narrow and long and I get a tiny bit of heel slippage with both pairs.And breaking in shes to fit properly is a painful process which these days I avoid.
Thanks in advance.



Master Milano said:

I started off in this part of the forum but migrated to SW&D after some of the older users stopped posting, so I'm not really in the loop . Also I've never worn high quality MC (do duckie brown for Florsheim count) shoes so I'm not really sure what to look for in order to distinguish between the good and the bad. In any case, mind helping or do I have to officially put up the spoo-signal?
Basic breakdown of high end shoes please

Click to expand...

LeJouvre said:

You're talking to the right person Milano, (Spoopoker), but if you want a 2nd opinion, and since you're in New York, why don't you saunter over to Leffot and have a little browse, and, if you are not impressed to death, or, if you don't buy anything he has on offer, I will pick up the tab! Deal?

Click to expand...

... what LeJouvre said.. take a look at Leffot. I can't explain shoe hierarchies in one reply, but if you want a very quick and simple who pwns who :

GG
JL
EG

----

CJ



md2010 said:

Gents, I am thinking of buying a pair of Marlow (either wingtip/tassel/penny). I have a pair of RL Sanderson wingtip in US8D which is really tight on toe area(even after 10 wear). I am a TTS US8EEE. Should I get US8.5 for Marlow wingtip ?
I also have a pair of RL Singleton Loafer in US8D which was extremely tight around toe area. And after 10-15 wear they loosened up and fit snug. For marlow penny / tassel should I size up to US 8.5D ?
Also both RL shoes are narrow and long and I get a tiny bit of heel slippage with both pairs.And breaking in shes to fit properly is a painful process which these days I avoid.
Thanks in advance.

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I own both. The sanderson is narrower than the marlow brogues. That being said, the advice throughout this thread was size down 1/2 size on the marlow, which I did, and it was good advice. Seems to me you ought to be an 8.5 w/ the sanderson. W/ a loafer I usually size down .5 to have a snugger fit and eliminate heel slippage

md2010 said:

Gents, I am thinking of buying a pair of Marlow (either wingtip/tassel/penny). I have a pair of RL Sanderson wingtip in US8D which is really tight on toe area(even after 10 wear). I am a TTS US8EEE. Should I get US8.5 for Marlow wingtip ?
I also have a pair of RL Singleton Loafer in US8D which was extremely tight around toe area. And after 10-15 wear they loosened up and fit snug. For marlow penny / tassel should I size up to US 8.5D ?
Also both RL shoes are narrow and long and I get a tiny bit of heel slippage with both pairs.And breaking in shes to fit properly is a painful process which these days I avoid.
Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

I don't want to be too depressing here but, if you are a TTS USEEE width, well, you may have some trouble with the Marlow because they do not come in E width, much less EEE width.

If you fit a Sanderson 8D, well then, let me ask you this, are you sure you are a EEE?

Marlows are a great last, and there is ample room in the toe box and the heel, which is why downsizing is so common, but if you are going to spend almost $900 on a pair of shoes I would definitely try them on first, unless you are willing to go through the embarrassment of multiple returns. One thing worse than a loose fitting toe box is a loose heel, and I suspect this is going to be your problem if you do not size down at least 1/2 size.

RL have always been willing to send me two pairs of their products for fitting with a view to returning 1 pair. If you really can't make it to a RL store, this might be an alternative option.

Why are you thinking of sizing UP to a 8.5? instead of down 1/2 size as is frequently recommended? Is it to gain width?



md2010 said:

Gents, I am thinking of buying a pair of Marlow (either wingtip/tassel/penny). I have a pair of RL Sanderson wingtip in US8D which is really tight on toe area(even after 10 wear). I am a TTS US8EEE. Should I get US8.5 for Marlow wingtip ?
I also have a pair of RL Singleton Loafer in US8D which was extremely tight around toe area. And after 10-15 wear they loosened up and fit snug. For marlow penny / tassel should I size up to US 8.5D ?
Also both RL shoes are narrow and long and I get a tiny bit of heel slippage with both pairs.And breaking in shes to fit properly is a painful process which these days I avoid.
Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

curzon said:

I own both. The sanderson is narrower than the marlow brogues. That being said, the advice throughout this thread was size down 1/2 size on the marlow, which I did, and it was good advice. Seems to me you ought to be an 8.5 w/ the sanderson. W/ a loafer I usually size down .5 to have a snugger fit and eliminate heel slippage

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LeJouvre said:

I don't want to be too depressing here but, if you are a TTS USEEE width, well, you may have some trouble with the Marlow because they do not come in E width, much less EEE width.

If you fit a Sanderson 8D, well then, let me ask you this, are you sure you are a EEE?

Marlows are a great last, and there is ample room in the toe box and the heel, which is why downsizing is so common, but if you are going to spend almost $900 on a pair of shoes I would definitely try them on first, unless you are willing to go through the embarrassment of multiple returns. One thing worse than a loose fitting toe box is a loose heel, and I suspect this is going to be your problem if you do not size down at least 1/2 size.

RL have always been willing to send me two pairs of their products for fitting with a view to returning 1 pair. If you really can't make it to a RL store, this might be an alternative option.

Why are you thinking of sizing UP to a 8.5? instead of down 1/2 size as is frequently recommended? Is it to gain width?

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You need to take the Sanderson's fit completely out of the equation. It is made by Allen Edmonds, and it is on their 2 last, which is an extremely narrow last. I'm a D width, and that shoe feels like a B or C to me. The reason it hurts you is because it is too narrow for an EEE foot. I don't know anything about the Singleton, but if the sole is the same shape and size as the Sanderson, same issues. (I think the Sanderson is the AE Willams):
http://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/AllAboutLastsView?catalogId=40000000001&langId=-1&storeId=1
http://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/producti_SF7602_1_40000000001_-1


The Marlow is made by C&J and is a completely different shoe. Try the advice from others here regarding the fit. Just do not compare it to the Sanderson at all.

chipshot and LeJouvre, thank you for the advice it is much appreciated.

As far as wide width marlows go...apparently Mr. Porter used to have them and does not anymore. However, if you look at the polo ralph lauren UK site (http://www.ralphlauren.co.uk/produc...1.3989711.5438121&ab=ln_men_accessories_shoes), they show wide US widths. There still however appears to be some confusion about the width the US RL actually has. Most seem to agree that the US RL marlows are actually the narrow width version of the 325 last (or the C&J pembroke). This is not 100%, but most posts point in this direction. I believe there is even a fellow on AAAC that compares them to his pembrokes and they are different in the same size. Now, looking at the UK website, it says US E width, but this corresponds to an F width in UK right? Or should I assume these are actually the normal UK E width shoes? It just says, for example, UK 10.5, US 11E. Anyone weigh in on this?

Also, has anyone in the US successfully gotten E width marlow wingtips?

Which seems more likely?
In the UK RL only sells wide width of the Darlton and in the US only sells medium width
or
there's some confusion as to the way RL lists shoe size on the UK site.

Take a look at the other "good" shoes on the UK site.
They're all listed as E width.

I asked customer service and they confirmed me that in Europe they sell US E width as standard., also for Rancourt made shoes and others.

I think that the US D is the UK E, so US E should be the UK F etc.
Note that these shoes are also available in US EE width see here: (look inside pictures)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Polo-Ralp..._Men_s_Shoes&hash=item43afd2d0f1#ht_614wt_905
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Polo-Ralp..._Men_s_Shoes&hash=item1c271142b4#ht_614wt_905

This is right for 314 last (available in Uk in E, F and G width, so US D, E and EE are correct)
Regarding the wingtip the strange thing is that the last 325 is apparently available only in UK E and G width so I don't know what's width is the US E of this model.

In my experience the 9D penny is identical to the UK 8.5 E in measurements, I found them little and really narrow,
I'm a TTS UK 8.5 F.

Gauss17 said:

chipshot and LeJouvre, thank you for the advice it is much appreciated.
As far as wide width marlows go...apparently Mr. Porter used to have them and does not anymore. However, if you look at the polo ralph lauren UK site (http://www.ralphlauren.co.uk/produc...1.3989711.5438121&ab=ln_men_accessories_shoes), they show wide US widths. There still however appears to be some confusion about the width the US RL actually has. Most seem to agree that the US RL marlows are actually the narrow width version of the 325 last (or the C&J pembroke). This is not 100%, but most posts point in this direction. I believe there is even a fellow on AAAC that compares them to his pembrokes and they are different in the same size. Now, looking at the UK website, it says US E width, but this corresponds to an F width in UK right? Or should I assume these are actually the normal UK E width shoes? It just says, for example, UK 10.5, US 11E. Anyone weigh in on this?
Also, has anyone in the US successfully gotten E width marlow wingtips?

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I own an old pair of Marlows in "E", but then, I was fortunate to have dealt with a particularly enthusiastic SA in NY who cannot take "no" as an answer. I believe RL did bring a very limited quantity of English "EE" of "F" for the US market, but they were never properly distributed to the stores or online store.

UK size "E" is basically a "D" - take a look at the bottom of this web page for a reasonable estimate of comparisons.:- http://www.veganline.com/shoe-sizes.htm

If you are a TTS 8EEE as you say, and, if you fit a 8D Sanderson very tightly, my first educated guess would be to go for a size 7.5 Marlow. If the heel fits comfortably without slippage, and, if you find the shoe a little tight in the middle of the box, you may have your perfect Marlow fit.

My Marlows have to be reasonably tight from the joint of the small toe and across at least the first two-three small toes. If these toes do not struggle at the first fit, the shoe will become too loose and you may have to replace them.

Remember, good shoes are like a good wine, the more the vine struggles through winter, the better the wine, but it cannot struggle to the point that you kill the vine.

A good fitting Marlow needs to be at least 1/2 size small, the sides of the toe box needs to be quite firm, and, since we are dealing with Cordovan here, the shoes will be a tough stretch before they move into shape, but when they do....................... Heaven!

Go ahead and try the 7.5 Marlow, but if you can get to a store, that would obviously be the best way to go.

SpooPoker said:

... what LeJouvre said.. take a look at Leffot. I can't explain shoe hierarchies in one reply, but if you want a very quick and simple who pwns who :
GG
JL
EG
----
CJ

Click to expand...

Here's an addition

GG
JL
EG
----
Carmina
CJ

EMartNJ said:

Here's an addition

GG
JL
EG
----
Carmina
CJ

Click to expand...

SpooPoker said:

The lowdown is they are the **** - amazing lasts for under/about $500. Id take a Carmina over a JL/EG most days now.


Should this then be:

GG
Carmina
JL
EG
----
CJ

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For me

GG
JL
EG
Vass
Carmina
C&J
Grenson Masterpiece
Meermin?
Duckie Brown
Alden

Based on quality, fit, price, and value. Alden shell is terribly overpriced, imo