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Criticism of Charles Tyrwhitt's revised >Black label< suit jacket?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Does anyone have experience with the "new" Charles Tyrwhitt Black label suit jacket?

"Based on your valued feedback, our new-shape Black Labels suits and separates are slimmer and sleeker than ever." - Nick C.T. Wheeler

And - in general, any criticism of CT Black Label suit jackets?

http://www.ctshirts.co.uk/men's-suits/view-all?q=gbpdefault|||||||2166,||||||||
post #2 of 18
Sounds like an improvement to me. I bought one of the previous versions and it has to go the tailor to get slimmed at the waist.
post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
That's encouraging! I am on the threshold of ordering one of these CTs. Too bad I didn't get any other posts besides yours, but I'm grateful for yours - thanks very much!
post #4 of 18
For the record on mine the button stitching is not very good and the same goes for button quality. Otherwise the only problems I have are with fit.
post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 
Does that mean that the buttons can easily fall off? I have that problem with my New & Lingwood double breasted blazer as well, but I must admit I'm brutal in my treatment of it. What is the problem with quality of buttons? From where can you acquire better buttons for replacement?
Fit is a severe problem.

PS: That photograph you use is incredible! it looks like Magreb maybe Egypt and the animal is a donkey?
post #6 of 18

I tried one of the black label suits recently in the store near Liverpool Street station.  The fit is nice, with much slimmer sleeves and more waist suppression than most suits I've tried.  It felt basically like my suits that have already been tailored.  They only had the navy and blue pin dot in stock, but I liked it.  Can't comment on the buttons.

 

For reference, I'm 5'8", 145lb - my normal suit size is 38 jacket/31 trousers, and the same size fit me well in this suit.  The sleeves were a little long but I have slightly shorter arms for my size apparently.

 

I would have picked one up but wasn't in the market for a suit at the time and I didn't want to have to explain yet another one to my wife, but if they're still around in the new year I'll definitely be buying one.

post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
A very stimulating post for which I am quite thankful. Very intreresting to know the fit has slim sleeves and waist suppression. I don't know what you mean: "like my suits that have already been tailored" - do you mean made to Measure or even Bespoke? The navy is stretch isn't it? I imagine that stretch is always of value. Blue pin dot must be an interesting structure, and I appreciate knowing you liked both. Too bad you didn't see the dogstooth, because i would like to know what you think of that, too.

Do you wear 38S?

Did you try on 38R or also 38S?

That is very encouraging! Thanks a lot!

PS: You didn't observe anything you didn't like? (Besides the too long sleeves.)
post #8 of 18

Sorry, I should explain myself better. I meant that the black label suit I tried in the store had a fit similar to the suits I already own, which are OTR but which have all had at least the waist taken in after purchase. Basically the CT suit was slimmer all over and felt like a much better fit straight from the shop. I normally wear 38S, and it was a 38S that I tried on in the shop.

 

I didn't see the dogstooth unfortunately, and I don't remember seeing the plain navy stretch, only the "navy and blue" pin dot.  But as I said, I liked the pin dot, it's quite an interesting fabric. I didn't see anything to be concerned about at the time but I was only in the store for a short while - I was really focussed on confirming the sizing more than anything, so I could order online later on.

post #9 of 18
Thread Starter 
Wow, reading your posts is intoxicating in a positive sense! Your physical dimensions are approximately my own, too! I must ask that my shirts be altered to the sleeve length of 31". Since I read that gauntlet buttons were initially part of the Jermyn Street archetypal shirt, i regret very much that I didn't have these made on every shirt - the gap is ungly! I must contradict Coles' when the claim is made we design our gauntlets so that there is no ugly gap! And Charles Tyrwhitt doesn't offer the addition of gauntlet buttons! You didn't state your shirt and suit jacket sleeve lengths? Sorry about my difficulty comprehending your faultless English - my desire to know everything possible about something I invest myself in makes me get some people nervous because I ask many questions. I'm happy you liked that pin dot pattern, and I wrote Charles Tyrwhitt yesterday to point out the three cloth samples - dogstooth, navy stretch and blue pin dot haven't arrived.

It's interesting to know you employ a tailor to alter your suit jackets off the r....? to increase waist suppression. (Suppression sounds unfree).
I abhor the suit contours to be seen in Central Europe - maybe still in the US - so it's no surprise you say you visited a CT shop in London because I believe waist suppression is an important feature of the English cut. Everything you write must make the other poster K. above pleased in view of what he wrote about his old Black Label. On the Charles Tyrwhitt website page where Black label suit jackets are advertised is an outline of the suit jacket in the revised conception - unfortunately, the old outline is not offered as a means of comparison for better comprehension of the alleged improvement.
Edited by Naive, Jr. - 10/6/11 at 7:32am
post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naive, Jr. View Post

Does that mean that the buttons can easily fall off? I have that problem with my New & Lingwood double breasted blazer as well, but I must admit I'm brutal in my treatment of it. What is the problem with quality of buttons? From where can you acquire better buttons for replacement?
Fit is a severe problem.
PS: That photograph you use is incredible! it looks like Magreb maybe Egypt and the animal is a donkey?

No, just that the stitching looks somewhat sloppy around the button holes and the buttons themselves as a material are not particularly uniform. They have these kind of ugly gray/brown stripes on some. I have had three of the same jacket, one I ordered was too big, the second one they sent was too small because it had the wrong label (was labeled 40L but was a 40S or 40R) and finally got the right size. I didn't pay attention to it on the previous ones but I think the button stitching on them was better looking. It's such an unnoticeable detail that I can't be bothered to go thru the whole return process again. The waistcoat I have for the same suit doesn't have the stitching issue and the buttons are more uniform looking.

The alterations I'm going to have done to mine are shortening the length a bit, lengthening the sleeves and adding more waist suppression. I have ridiculously long arms but otherwise fairly normal proportions so I need the long length due to the arms.

PS. the picture is this biggrin.gifWarning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
flying_camel.jpg.scaled.500.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJFZAE65UYRT34AOQ&Expires=1317913783&Signature=HP9RH97sUadjza4Uabd%2FUiBXBvY%3D
post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by kasakka View Post

buttons themselves as a material are not particularly uniform. They have these kind of ugly gray/brown stripes on some.

facepalm.gif

Good buttons will not be uniform because they're made out of natural materials like horn or bone, which always contain subtle striations; often this is desirable. Only cheap plastic buttons will be perfectly uniform in colour.
post #12 of 18
Thread Starter 
I appreciate both of your posts about evaluation of those buttons used on the earlier version of the Charles Tyrwhitt Black Label suit jacket. This is indeed reason for concern. If the buttonhole is sloppily sewn, then how can such miscarriage be corrected? Sounds like a negative mess not easily repaired? The problem of button itself seems to be less grave. In this case of positive material, there appears a controversy about the nature of the button material - advertised as "natural corozo buttons" - this is a question of theoretical research and observation of specimens. Perhaps the buttons in question attached to the earlier Black Label were not made of "natural corozo" marerial? Perhaps there is a misunderstanding by one party who would like to revise his judgment on the issue and clarify the situation so I can know what to expect when I get the dogstooth or dogtooth suit jacket I ordered a few minutes ago? I wrote the lady of partial Scot origin who serves as chat consultant at the Charles Tyrwhitt website for suit jackets about this thread, and how the posters have been so helpful to share their valuable experience and knowledge, and she replied she intends to read what you wrote. I contacted her again after getting inspired by you posters - I asked her to inform her superiors at the Charles Tyrwhitt design room to consider what I believe to be superior to mere measurements - a picture to illustrate the outline of the older model of the Black label to facilitate better comprehension of what Nick Wheeler claims to be the result of customer feedback: "slimmer and slanker" design - so then one can easily see by comparison of the new outline "Tailored Fit" already provided the diferences!

PS: I'm the opposite of a nerd or whatever those talented computer experts are called so I don't know how and can't do anything about that photograph of leather boots which accompanies my name whenever I post. I have nothing to do with those boots, and i would never wear them. I recommend anybody who wants super boots to phone Colin Austin at New & Lingwood - I'm so enthused I tend to want to keep it secret for myself in fear I won't be able to buy more! There was a post somewhere complaining the double souls of the jodhpur photographed don't correspond to the real shoe - in any case, otherwise the boot is far better than the Jodhpur interpretations I bought offered by CT and S&H.
Edited by Naive, Jr. - 10/6/11 at 10:31am
post #13 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naive, Jr. View Post

In this case of positive material, there appears a controversy about the nature of the button material - advertised as "natural corozo buttons" - this is a question of theoretical research and observation of specimens. Perhaps the buttons in question attached to the earlier Black Label were not made of "natural corozo" marerial?

I've no idea about these CT suits in particular, but corozo is a good material for buttons; it is a type of nut and therefore it is expected that there will be natural variations in the colour.
post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum View Post

I've no idea about these CT suits in particular, but corozo is a good material for buttons; it is a type of nut and therefore it is expected that there will be natural variations in the colour.

Thanks very much for taking the trouble to share your knowledge.
Let us assume we discover for whatever reason the buttons on our new suit jacket are less than ideal - what would you recommend as possible substitute and where could one order these?
In the case of a suit jacket described as black and grey dogstooth, which colours do you consider best for buttons?
post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum View Post

facepalm.gif
Good buttons will not be uniform because they're made out of natural materials like horn or bone, which always contain subtle striations; often this is desirable. Only cheap plastic buttons will be perfectly uniform in colour.

Yes I know, but in this case the buttons are black and the stripes don't look good. Took a pic, see the lowest button vs the more uniform ones at the top. Perceived material quality aside, even purely as an aesthetic choice it's not good.

666

Naive Jr., it's not like the buttonholes will break or anything, it's just that the stitching simply look messy on some holes. It's less aesthetically pleasing. It would be fairly easy for a tailor to fix by just redoing them. But it's something nobody will notice or truly care about and it seems to have happened only on this particular jacket - maybe the person who did the work on it had a bad day. Like I said, the waistcoat for the same suit is pretty much perfect in this area and no problems with the buttons themselves either. I wouldn't go around changing buttons or fixing button stitching without getting the jacket first - more than likely it will be perfect and if not, CT has a good return and exchange policy and their customer service is very good.

My jacket also says "tailored fit" on the inside but it's certainly not tailored for this body and I certainly don't have a super athletic body or anything. But this is nothing uncommon for ready to wear clothes ordered over the net and for a fairly minimal extra sum a tailor can fix the issues.
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