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How much does culture/ethnicity affect the clothes you wear? - Page 5

post #61 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSS View Post

While the majority of my wardrobe is very English, I do mix in a bit of Italian and French. I was introduced to both by an aunt (via marriage) who was born in Milan. She came from a family known for industrial design and played an important role in helping me develop a sense of style. She introduced me to OTR and MTM Neapolitan tailoring (which tends English in flavor) ... as well as Arnys (which doesn't ... tend English that is), Mettez (for all my socks), Crimson & more.
Like you ... no Italian shoes ... only English and French.

So, am I to understand that you dress as an elderly woman from northen Italy?

Quite intriquing. Might you be so kind as to provide us some illustrative examples, please?

I'm having a hard time imagining how your attire must have supported your successful architectural practice. Although, as I'm certain it must have, I'm equally as certain your 'look' must be quite something to see!

tounge.gif
post #62 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post

So, am I to understand that you dress as an elderly woman from northen Italy? Quite intriquing. Might you be so kind as to provide us some illustrative examples, please?
I'm having a hard time imagining how your attire must have supported your successful architectural practice. Although, as I'm certain it must have, I'm equally as certain your 'look' must be quite something to see!
rotflmao.gif

Actually the aunt is only two years older than I. She was my uncle's second wife. When I say introduced ... I mean she took me to particular shops for my first visit. Sorry to disappoint.

However ... Somewhere around one of the houses is a photo of me -- many years ago -- dressed as Charo ... nod[1].gif ... for a haloween constume party I believe it was. I'd have been one ugly drag queen had I elected that direction. But that photo might resemble what you seek. As I recall, I'm wearing a leopard pants suit.
post #63 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSS View Post

Actually the aunt is only two years older than I. She was my uncle's second wife. When I say introduced ... I mean she took me to particular shops for my first visit. Sorry to disappoint.
However ... Somewhere around one of the houses is a photo of me -- many years ago -- dressed as Charo ... for a haloween constume party I believe it was. God I'd have been one ugly drag queen had I elected that direction. But that photo might resemble what you seek.

well.........you wouldn't want to be accussed of being a tease......would you?

biggrin.gif

You know, you really shouldn't encourage me..................
post #64 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post

well.........you wouldn't want to be accussed of being a tease......would you?
Oh, that's lightweight in terms of accusations levied against me.
post #65 of 92
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Edited by F. Corbera - 10/1/11 at 4:39am
post #66 of 92
Dolly would have you know it takes a lot of money to look that cheap. Which is also sometimes true on SF.
post #67 of 92
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Edited by Marshall Anthony - 3/6/12 at 2:06pm
post #68 of 92
I belong to the standard western culture, with its standard western dress so it's hard to judge how much this influences how I dress, except completely. Let's just say other cultures don't seem to affect the way I dress. If I was to be affected by my cultural ancestors of the early 20th century, I'd have a penchant for four button jackets. If my parents were my influence; my mother had most of her clothing tailored by her local tailor who would often draw or cut dress patterns by eye alone; while my father worked in textiles but had no respect for clothing. He would often wear and destroy his newest clothes and shoes while gardening, and wear old horrible tat around town. My grandfather was very practical but highly conformed to customs and would always wear a suit during family occasions like Christmas dinners.

My dress is as basic as possible, restricted by what is available, what is expected, and generally acceptable. I lust after the nicest things and I dislike gimmicks.
post #69 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeDT View Post

Can't be as bad as Mainland China, can it?

You'd be surprised at just how committed Australians can be to their particular brand(s) of choice. Clothes, cars, mobile phones ... many seem to try their hardest to conform to their respective class as conspicuously as possible.

And yes, many Australian males would probably feel right at home in SW&D.
post #70 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkRanger View Post

Glad, I'm going to quote you here because what you have to say rings true for me as well, except as an Italian-American. The guido subculture has been something thats been shunned since its inception (the first generations of Italian-Americans who did their best to "Americanize" their immigrant parents customs) and its something I consciously try to avoid when I dress, whether its casual, street wear, or CBD-or as CBD as I get. I like you, however, have realized that there is some importance to this "guido" culture, that as much as they try to disconnect from the old country, ties directly into the lives their ancestors lived and the reasons those men and women LEFT Italy in their own diaspora, and in fact should be embraced by Italian Americans because our culture is also disappearing. In fact, the topic, not necessarily from a sartorial perspective, will be a pet project of mine that a few SFers and the many IA friends I have will be helping me formulate through the sharing of their experiences.
Back to the sartorial, well sort of. My great grandparents came to NY over 120 years ago and when they did they did everything they could to "become American", even if it was at the expense of their own culture. This included dressing American, speaking American, and eating American. They became avid NY Giant fans (baseball) and spent much of their little leisure time at the Polo Grounds faking American accents in the stands. Another aspect of the "change-over" was the disassociation with the Roman Catholic/Latin Church. Although still members on Sunday, much like the conversos and marranos of Spain during the Inquisition, they stayed far away from it during the week. The easiest way they could do that was to adopt a WASP wardrobe. The guidos, who could easily be identified through their accents and clothes, whether its The Situation on Jersey Shore today, or Tony Manero from Saturday Night Fever 35 years ago, were clearly Italian Americans and clearly Catholic. Italians who came here wanted nothing to do with a religion that was viewed as archaic and un-American, and the esiest way to do that in everyday ife was through dress and speech. Even Italian names began to change once in America (my great grandfather went from DonDiego to Bell, and first names became Anglicized). It also probably didn't help the situation that Church officials top to bottom across the South (formerly Kingdom of the Two Sicilies) were implicit in the brutal oppression that Garibaldi and his cronies laid on the people there in the 1860s. But thats for another thread...
Anyway, as we as a society look upon people like Mike The Situation with disgust (A&F paying him NOT to wear their clothes...imagine if they made that same offer to an African American start today) they are holding onto more of their identity, albeit changed over the years, more so than the Italian Americans who know little of where they come from and view their Northern oppressors as heros and icons of their culture (which in my mind is the biggest falsehood in Italian American identity, as most of us hail from the South, where we spoke a different language-I wont even call it a dialect, I argue it was as different as Spanish and Portuguese-and had a very different culture and way of life). That different way of life was a polar opposite to the Protestant American Capitalist work ethic and caused the same type of problems within our subculture that we are now seeing in Greece, another Mediterranean culture with whom Southern Italians have much in common. I'll share with you this last story of my Neapolitan family. The Nunziatas came here in 1900, and during the 20's, 30's and 40's they owned a scrap metal business. When the Second WW started they could have made millions, but instead chose to work and get enough scrap so that they could shut down shop and spend the rest of the day at the beach, or lounging around. At first glance, and most of my own family feels this way, this would seem lazy and undesirable. But if you look deeper, it was just their way of showing what held more value in their lives. Rather than working all day, and making a ton of money for future generations, they valued the time they had on this earth with their family (they were very close) and to them, that was worth more than the dollar bills that could have lined their pockets and bought them expensive wardrobes. Some will say (with their Protestant American Work Ethic branded on their consciousness) that these folks were lazy, entitled bums, just like many are calling the young Greeks today. I argue, that this philosophy, which frustrates a great many Western Capitalist visitors when they go to places like Naples and the Greek Islands (shops closing for the entire month of August, 2 and a half hour lunch breaks, opening at 11, closing at 4), is neither lazy nor entitled, but simply has value placed on other things aside from money and work. Its why the Nunziatas were usually in a pair of trousers and "wife beater" guido undershirts all the time. Because it was the time and people they got to enjoy life with, rather than the "stuff" that we've been brainwashed to "need" by our capitalist system. Most Italian American try to distance themselves from that today, and one way is through how they dress, by consciously avoiding the very style (life and sartorial) that was once the very foundation of who they were, or weren't.

I love your reply. It is funny to note that paradox of from one side people wanting to be americanized in their way of dressing and from the other, americans now considering neapolitan tailoring as the best in the world. I do not feel that consciousness is the drive for work in our western societies. It is greed. Final lesson, "be yourself no matter what they say". This applies also to dress.
post #71 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSS View Post
This has ruined my ability to use the old Southern saying, "It'll be a cold day in July."
 


Members will not be surprised to learn that this is not a common saying in the UK...

 

(,,, current 30C temperatures in October notwithstanding.)

post #72 of 92
Thread Starter 

Recently posted by vox in WAYWRN regarding some of the looks therein:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

Generations of men looked great in tailored clothes by sticking to one store or one tailor. Or at least, stores and tailors in the same street, neighborhood, or familiar society.

 

This strikes a chord with some of the themes of this thread, I think. It references the self-reinforcing coherence of dress imposed by an ethnic/cultural norm.

 

In today's world of a less culturally-rooted, and perhaps more anomic, world, we draw coherent inspiration from designers... and perhaps even more dysfunctionally, from internet style tumblers and message boards.

 

Is developing a sense of coherent expression/insight into one's style inevitably associated with patronising a narrowing range of outfitters? I know I've certainly massively cut down on the range of places I buy from, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm getting better at expressing myself sartorially (obviously, I think I am, but that's no guide...!). I guess it depends on what prompts you to opt to narrow your range, and what is the target range.

post #73 of 92

The combination of people I'm seeing and the decision to blend in or stand out have much more influence on my dress than my ethnicity or cultural background. Of course we all have backgrounds that inform our ideas and preferences for certain styles, but I like to think we all have some kind of free will to pick and choose things from whatever era or cultural group (even an internet cultural group) that appeals to us. I do, however, avoid certain things that I might otherwise like on other guys (bright colors, pinstripes, designer stuff) because either I don't want to be perceived a certain way or something just doesn't "feel like me" -- which I suppose could be some cultural or ethnic influence.

 

post #74 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

I remember a thread with MC doing SW&D and SW&D doing MC. Most styles/fit were horrendous to the opposit forum. It is very difficult to dress well in a certain style without doing it daily. Or have a tall slender figure like Spoo. smile.gif
Can you link the threads? I want to see how they look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tone76 View Post


- Wanker: usually a white collar worker, their choice of casual clothes begins and ends at PRL. They think that PRL is the only line RL does. May own several suits, usually department store brands like Studio Italia, or maybe Hugo Boss if they're a high income earner. They also have an unhealthy obsession with cufflinks. If you go into a bogan neighbourhood in wanker garb, you'll probably get a cold reception at best, a punch in the face at worst.

The cufflinks and pointy loafers are giving way to button cuffs and captoe oxfords.
Makes me sound like a semi-wanker laugh.gif Love my cutaway collared frenchcuffed shirts.
post #75 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post

The combination of people I'm seeing and the decision to blend in or stand out have much more influence on my dress than my ethnicity or cultural background. Of course we all have backgrounds that inform our ideas and preferences for certain styles, but I like to think we all have some kind of free will to pick and choose things from whatever era or cultural group (even an internet cultural group) that appeals to us. I do, however, avoid certain things that I might otherwise like on other guys (bright colors, pinstripes, designer stuff) because either I don't want to be perceived a certain way or something just doesn't "feel like me" -- which I suppose could be some cultural or ethnic influence.

 


Re: the bolded bit, maybe we need a thread on the free will vs determinism argument as applied to clothing? Hmm, I suppose this IS that thread... what have I created?! laugh.gif

 

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