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Diemme Footwear - Page 5

post #61 of 87
The closest Vibram repairshop is 700km from where I live wink.gif

I understood what you meant and I still think having a sole with the abrasion resistance of an eraser isn't the best thing in the world.

The difference between christy and morflex is the "holes", which is what helps you gain traction and on snow the deeper the better.

I still wonder why I was told, that the boot you linked to higher up, didn't exist and what about the laces?
post #62 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post

The closest Vibram repairshop is 700km from where I live wink.gif

I understood what you meant and I still think having a sole with the abrasion resistance of an eraser isn't the best thing in the world.

The difference between christy and morflex is the "holes", which is what helps you gain traction and on snow the deeper the better.

I still wonder why I was told, that the boot you linked to higher up, didn't exist and what about the laces?

 

 

Sorry, but you still did not understand the difference between abrasion resistance and hardness. I'll try to explain it more properly. Abrasion is the loss of material that results from mechanical action. An abrasion resistance test measures a rubber by a standardized test where the mass loss during exposure to an abrasion cloth is converted to volume loss by measuring its specific gravity. The index is expressed in mm3 where the lower the score, the better abrasion resistance there is. In terms of performance on a rubber sole, the lower the score, the longer it will take for the sole to wear down.

 

The hardness of a material is the resistance to indentation, i.e. the softness or hardness in terms of how flexible it is; how easily it will bend or indent when force is applied. Hardness does not have any direct correlation with the abrasion resistance of a material. A material with a low hardness score can be just as abrasion resistant as a material with a high hardness score. Generally, in terms of rubber, a softer material will be less abrasion resistant than a harder material, but the basis of a durometer test is simply to measure the hardness. Which is why there is a separate test for abrasion resistance. I wrote that Morflex has the same hardness/softness as a pencil eraser, not that they performed similarly in an abrasion resistance test. A pencil eraser will wear down much, much faster than Morflex.

 

Cristy is Morflex. Morflex is a compound, not a sole. What you mean is that a Cristy Morflex gives better traction than a Begonia Morflex due to the difference in patterns. This is not uniformly correct. The pattern on the Cristy Morflex will give better lateral traction whereas the Begonia Morflex gives a better forward traction. The lugs on Cristy Morflex is not particularly deeper than Begonia Morflex, but they are self-cleansing and at an angle that improves lateral traction compared to the Begonia Morflex. Which one performs best will depend entirely on the situation.

 

I'm not sure what you are referring to regarding a boot that you were told did not exist. Are you referring to a dialogue you have had with one of the retailers of Diemme? What were you wondering about regarding the laces? Yes, we offer laces to our retailers, but for logistic reasons they are sold in prepacks of 50. We don't do any direct sales from diemmefootwear.com.

post #63 of 87
Egba how do the rocca vets compare in fit to say scarpas?
post #64 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by EGBA View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Sorry, but you still did not understand the difference between abrasion resistance and hardness. I'll try to explain it more properly. Abrasion is the loss of material that results from mechanical action. An abrasion resistance test measures a rubber by a standardized test where the mass loss during exposure to an abrasion cloth is converted to volume loss by measuring its specific gravity. The index is expressed in mm3 where the lower the score, the better abrasion resistance there is. In terms of performance on a rubber sole, the lower the score, the longer it will take for the sole to wear down.

The hardness of a material is the resistance to indentation, i.e. the softness or hardness in terms of how flexible it is; how easily it will bend or indent when force is applied. Hardness does not have any direct correlation with the abrasion resistance of a material. A material with a low hardness score can be just as abrasion resistant as a material with a high hardness score. Generally, in terms of rubber, a softer material will be less abrasion resistant than a harder material, but the basis of a durometer test is simply to measure the hardness. Which is why there is a separate test for abrasion resistance. I wrote that Morflex has the same hardness/softness as a pencil eraser, not that they performed similarly in an abrasion resistance test. A pencil eraser will wear down much, much faster than Morflex.

Cristy is Morflex. Morflex is a compound, not a sole. What you mean is that a Cristy Morflex gives better traction than a Begonia Morflex due to the difference in patterns. This is not uniformly correct. The pattern on the Cristy Morflex will give better lateral traction whereas the Begonia Morflex gives a better forward traction. The lugs on Cristy Morflex is not particularly deeper than Begonia Morflex, but they are self-cleansing and at an angle that improves lateral traction compared to the Begonia Morflex. Which one performs best will depend entirely on the situation.

I'm not sure what you are referring to regarding a boot that you were told did not exist. Are you referring to a dialogue you have had with one of the retailers of Diemme? What were you wondering about regarding the laces? Yes, we offer laces to our retailers, but for logistic reasons they are sold in prepacks of 50. We don't do any direct sales from diemmefootwear.com.


No, I understood perfectly well what you meant and you repeating it for the third time in a technical way, ins't going to make it easier for people to understand, nor will it change my point of view, as the sole simply doesn't work for my needs and that it wears don't too quickly.

You knew what I meant so starting a doctrine on why they are alike, is redundant.

Yes, I'm referring to being told that said option doesn't exists by your own retailers, which can only be one of three things, one they are poorly trained, two complete ignorant or three they don't want to sell the boot.

You already stated that you don't do direct sales, which I was already aware of and seem to be missing the point about your own retailers, not giving the customers the best service they can, by offering them replacement laces, due to the way to pack them.
post #65 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post


No, I understood perfectly well what you meant and you repeating it for the third time in a technical way, ins't going to make it easier for people to understand, nor will it change my point of view, as the sole simply doesn't work for my needs and that it wears don't too quickly.

You knew what I meant so starting a doctrine on why they are alike, is redundant.

Yes, I'm referring to being told that said option doesn't exists by your own retailers, which can only be one of three things, one they are poorly trained, two complete ignorant or three they don't want to sell the boot.

You already stated that you don't do direct sales, which I was already aware of and seem to be missing the point about your own retailers, not giving the customers the best service they can, by offering them replacement laces, due to the way to pack them.

 

You wrote in your previous post; "I understood what you meant and I still think having a sole with the abrasion resistance of an eraser isn't the best thing in the world." Clearly you did not understand as I spoke about the hardness being similar on a Morflex and a pencil eraser, not the abrasion resistance. The abrasion resistance is hugely different between a pencil eraser and Morflex, so when you write that having a sole with the same abrasion resistance as pencil rubber is not the best thing, then you clearly failed to understand. I can perfectly understand that the sole does not fit your needs and that you feel it wears down too quickly - those are your subjective opinions which you are fully entitled to have. But stating that they have the same abrasion resistance as pencil rubber is simply incorrect and with no basis in facts.

 

Clearly we can't be responsible for what comes up in a dialogue between a consumer and the staff in one of the stores we sell to, and I don't know what was said, when it was said, or how it was said. That would be like blaming The Coca-Cola company for details in a dialogue on cherry coke between a clerk at Wal-Mart and a consumer. If we had our own stores and you walked into a Diemme Footwear store, the situation would be different, but I can't for the life of me understand why you are pursuing this so aggressively - demanding an answer on something I am in no position to give an answer on.

 

I'm more than happy to answer any questions regarding Diemme and provide technical facts on all materials we use, but I can't answer on behalf of one of the clients we sell to.

post #66 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotcomzzz View Post

Egba how do the rocca vets compare in fit to say scarpas?

 

Hi, I'm unfortunately not that accustomed to the sizing of Scarpa, but generally most people find the Roccia Vet to run a bit small in size - or more precisely a bit short in length. They have a spacious toe box, high instep, and a medium width last, but about 3 in 5 people will size up due to the length. They are more similar to athletic footwear brands like Nike or Adidas rather than more traditional boot manufacturers or fashion brands - which are generally larger in size. All other styles from Diemme I would consider true to size.

post #67 of 87
Thanks. That's more than helpful.
post #68 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by EGBA View Post

 

Hi, I'm unfortunately not that accustomed to the sizing of Scarpa, but generally most people find the Roccia Vet to run a bit small in size - or more precisely a bit short in length. They have a spacious toe box, high instep, and a medium width last, but about 3 in 5 people will size up due to the length. They are more similar to athletic footwear brands like Nike or Adidas rather than more traditional boot manufacturers or fashion brands - which are generally larger in size. All other styles from Diemme I would consider true to size.

That's about as accurate description as I've ever read.

 

BTW, I would like to move a pair of Roccia Vet's in Rodeo Black with the Ripple Sole, size 44 1/2, worn once. Please contact me via PM if you're interested. (I'd say they fit best for a size US 11.)

post #69 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by EGBA View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
You wrote in your previous post; "I understood what you meant and I still think having a sole with the abrasion resistance of an eraser isn't the best thing in the world." Clearly you did not understand as I spoke about the hardness being similar on a Morflex and a pencil eraser, not the abrasion resistance. The abrasion resistance is hugely different between a pencil eraser and Morflex, so when you write that having a sole with the same abrasion resistance as pencil rubber is not the best thing, then you clearly failed to understand. I can perfectly understand that the sole does not fit your needs and that you feel it wears down too quickly - those are your subjective opinions which you are fully entitled to have. But stating that they have the same abrasion resistance as pencil rubber is simply incorrect and with no basis in facts.


Clearly we can't be responsible for what comes up in a dialogue between a consumer and the staff in one of the stores we sell to, and I don't know what was said, when it was said, or how it was said. That would be like blaming The Coca-Cola company for details in a dialogue on cherry coke between a clerk at Wal-Mart and a consumer. If we had our own stores and you walked into a Diemme Footwear store, the situation would be different, but I can't for the life of me understand why you are pursuing this so aggressively - demanding an answer on something I am in no position to give an answer on.


I'm more than happy to answer any questions regarding Diemme and provide technical facts on all materials we use, but I can't answer on behalf of one of the clients we sell to.

Aggressively not at all, it's a discussion, it's the way they work, see it as customer feedback and it is up to you to decided what to do with it. (a happy customer is a returning customer).

First of all, am I wrong, is it a good thing? I don't know about the erasers you have in Norway, but the ones we have in Denmark match my personal opinion of said sole, and if you read the thread you can see I'm not alone in my displeasure with the sole, only difference is that I solved the problem.

I own an agency/distribution business in a different field, so I know how it works and I would be PISSED if was told by a customers, that the retailer gave them wrong information, it's basically a lost sale and in the end it's the agent/manufactures job to make sure the retailers represent your products correctly.
Edited by Find Finn - 2/10/13 at 5:34am
post #70 of 87
FWIW I'm probably getting the soles on my pair resoled on the cost of the store so I'm very happy with that. On the other hand, had I not gone to the step of contacting the store about the problems I've had with the boots in wintery conditions I would have been left with a pair of boots that is useless in snow. By that conclusion, a pair of boots bought in the a/w season that I cannot use for most of the season.

I'm not using them for hiking, mountaneering etc. either, the intent were to use them for a daily commute consisting of roughly 2 km of walking on a snow covered pavement.
Edited by afc345 - 2/10/13 at 8:47am
post #71 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by afc345 View Post

FWIW I'm probably getting the soles on my pair resoled on the cost of the store so I'm very happy with that. On the other hand, had I not gone to the step of contacting the store about the problems I've had with the boots in wintery conditions I would have been left with a pair of boots that is useless in snow. By that conclusion, a pair of boots bought in the a/w season that I cannot use for most of the season.

Nice and good to hear there's brick and mortars shops left that care about customer satisfaction.
post #72 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by afc345 View Post

FWIW I'm probably getting the soles on my pair resoled on the cost of the store so I'm very happy with that. On the other hand, had I not gone to the step of contacting the store about the problems I've had with the boots in wintery conditions I would have been left with a pair of boots that is useless in snow. By that conclusion, a pair of boots bought in the a/w season that I cannot use for most of the season.

I'm not using them for hiking, mountaneering etc. either, the intent were to use them for a daily commute consisting of roughly 2 km of walking on a snow covered pavement.
I've been using my Firenze's with christie morflex on the snow and slush covered NYC streets the last few days. You have to be a bit careful with ice, but IMO it's not that bad.
post #73 of 87

Find Finn is certainly supporting the styleforum user stereotype that is so highly regarded by the internet.

 

The fact that a manufacturer is literally educating someone and then having it thrown in his face, in-fucking-credible. I never thought someone could be more of a dick at this sort of thing than we Americans. lol8[1].gif It's not like they even make the sole themselves. 


Then again, I have clearly never experienced the erasers of Denmark, which are either incredibly hard or soft depending on who you agree with here. 

post #74 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Distorbiant View Post

Find Finn is certainly supporting the styleforum user stereotype that is so highly regarded by the internet.

The fact that a manufacturer is literally educating someone and then having it thrown in his face, in-fucking-credible. I never thought someone could be more of a dick at this sort of thing than we Americans. lol8[1].gif
 It's not like they even make the sole themselves. 



Then again, I have clearly never experienced the erasers of Denmark, which are either incredibly hard or soft depending on who you agree with here. 

Me being a dick is a well established fact, but I still don't agree with him/her about the greatness of the sole.


In my mind a hiking boot sole should have deep enough groves for it to have grip on all surfaces, wide enough for small stones not get stuck and hard enough for said stones to stuck in to the rubber, the Bergonia in my experience fail at all three, the same goes for an eraser, a marshmallow and a piece of chewed out chewing gum.

Blender isn't the manufacture, they are a sales agent and branding firm.
http://www.blenderagency.no

The erasers I had at school were shit and were best used as ammunition and any 10 year old could disintegrated them into a million pieces with in 2 minutes.

Last but not least the this discussion, should never have taken place, a manufacture etc. should never enter a discussion like this online etc. as they can't win.

It should have gone.
Me: blah blah
EGBA: thanks for the feedback, we will look into it. (This will make the customer think/believe they will look into to it, whether or not they do it doesn't matter)
Me: great thanks
Edited by Find Finn - 2/11/13 at 11:32am
post #75 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Distorbiant View Post

Find Finn is certainly supporting the styleforum user stereotype that is so highly regarded by the internet.

The fact that a manufacturer is literally educating someone and then having it thrown in his face, in-fucking-credible. I never thought someone could be more of a dick at this sort of thing than we Americans. lol8[1].gif
 It's not like they even make the sole themselves. 



Then again, I have clearly never experienced the erasers of Denmark, which are either incredibly hard or soft depending on who you agree with here. 

Me being a dick is a well established fact, but I still don't agree with him/her about the greatness of the sole.


In my mind a hiking boot sole should have deep enough groves for it to have grip on all surfaces, wide enough for small stones not get stuck and hard enough for said stones to stuck in to the rubber, the Bergonia in my experience fail at all three, the same goes for an eraser, a marshmallow and a piece of chewed out chewing gum.

Blender isn't the manufacture, they are a sales agent and branding firm.
http://www.blenderagency.no

The erasers I had at school were shit and were best used as ammunition and any 10 year old could disintegrated them into a million pieces with in 2 minutes.

Last but not least the this discussion, should never have taken place, a manufacture etc. should never enter a discussion like this online etc. as they can't win.

It should have gone.
Me: blah blah
EGBA: thanks for the feedback, we will look into it. (This will make the customer think/believe they will look into to it, whether or not they do it doesn't matter)
Me: great thanks

It's not a hiking boot...
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