Diemme Footwear - Page 4

Hi,

I work with Diemme Footwear at Blender Agency, so I thought I'd join here in case people have any questions or comments that they would like any direct feedback on straight from the source. My schedule does not allow me to be omnipresent here at the forum, but I'll do my best to answer as quickly as I can.

First things first; to properly explain the goal and purpose of the Diemme Footwear collection it is a line that is intended for city use. We use high quality Vibram soles that are very expensive compared to other rubber compound soles from other suppliers, but most of them are chosen for their performance in city conditions with comfort through lightness and flexibility as the main deciding factors. Most of the soles are in expanded rubber or micro rubber compounds. For use in the outdoors and in heavy snow it would be more beneficial with rubber soles that give more traction - and with deeper lugs, but rubber soles are much more rigid and much heavier which makes them less ideal for city use and in dry conditions. On ice it is really only soles with metal parts or cotton-infused soles that give any meaningful performance lift.

To me the Roccia Vet is perfect for cold or gusty weather where one wants footwear that provides warmth and a cushioned and comfortable walk with relatively good ankle support, but where the conditions are relatively dry or where the terrain is flat. For use in deep snow and in steep terrain it would be much better to go with soles like the Roccia Block or Montagna Block:

The composition that gives good performance in deep snow and in steep terrain are more or less diametrically opposite to the composition that gives lightness and flexibility which are key factors for city use, so it is difficult to combine the two. The sole manufacturing business is also a very traditional industry with very little change and new innovation, compared to other industries like textiles or leather, so it makes the options somewhat limited. Most of the reason for this is that the development cost for rubber soles are massively large and the production minimums are huge, which makes brands and sole manufacturers reluctant to invest in new soles and new technology. But we have a few new soles in the works, one for AW13 with a rubber Cristy sheet (undersole) that we fix to a custommade EVA midsole that we produce in Italy to the same dimensions as the regular Cristy sole. That way one will experience a better grip, but still with the same profile and appearance as the Cristy sole. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by EGBA 

 On ice it is really only soles with metal parts or cotton-infused soles that give any meaningful performance lift.

 

 

 

 

So you need to wear spikes to after all?  The vibram sole pattern used isn't effective for ice (Thanks to a broken tail bone...)

I understand that you must be frustrated, but I would appreciate if we could please try to keep a civil tongue.

Obviously, the claim that we would use anything but original Vibram soles is proposterous. Surely it does not make sense that we would be buying some genuine and some less than genuine Vibram soles? That would ruin the relationship between Diemme and Vibram - a relationship that is over 20 years old. We only source from the premier suppliers - whatever the component. Our hardware is made in Italy and Austria. Our laces are produced in Italy and Germany. Our soles are for the most part made in Italy, apart from some items from Vibram China. Our leather is from Italian, US, Swiss, French and UK tanneries. We don't do shortcuts and we certainly would not source fake Vibram soles.

The sole you are referring to is the Vibram Begonia Morflex 8347 sheet, fixed to a microcellular rubber midsole. Vibram Morflex has abrasion resistance numbers of <200 mm3. Polymers with 150-200 mm3 is considered to have moderate resistance to abrasion. But the microcellular midsole has a lower density and less abrasion resistance so when you first wear away the sheet (undersole) the midsole will wear down rapidly. If you're interested in other numbers it has a hardness of 35-45 ShoreA, so basically the same softness as a pencil eraser, and a density of 0,3 gr/cm3 meaning that it is very lightweight. The fracture strain is extremely high at 250-350 %. In the past three years we have had a return rate on less than 0,2 % so there has not been a general problem with the soles even though we have used a lot of Morflex. I can remember two instances on the Morflex and one on the Newflex compound where we have had consumers that have worn down the soles and claimed this to be a factory defect. In comparision to the overall quantities we have sold this is an extremely low number. For soles with sheet undersoles and softer midsoles of EVA or microcellular rubber it is important to replace the undersole as soon as it is getting close to wearing through to the midsole.

There is a separate Japanese collection that has been sold for the past 8 years. In this collection there has been a heavier focus on more traditional soles such as the Roccia Block and Montagna Block, but we still use these soles on some of the styles in the worldwide collection. Here is an example: http://www.diemmefootwear.com/product/tibet%20snuff   Commandos, Roccia Block and Montagna Block are generally made from the Vibram Mont rubber which has an abrasion resistance of <110 but a hardness of 75-81 ShoreA and a density of 1,15 gr/cm3 so it weighs almost four times as much as Morflex and is more rigid than a car tire. Starting with this SP13 we are offering the Japanese collection to our worldwide clients as well, but there are not that many non-Japanese buyers that buy from this collection.

We don't do any direct sales, but we do offer laces through our retailers. It is only a smaller portion of our retailers that choose to carry laces, and there are hardly any online stores - which is understandable considering the small unit price. That being said it is also perfectly possible to buy and use any laces from any supplier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentfox74 

So you need to wear spikes to after all?  The vibram sole pattern used isn't effective for ice (Thanks to a broken tail bone...)

A rubber sole will give a slightly better performance than expanded rubber compounds such as Newflex or Morflex. and you also have rubber compounds such as Vibram Icetrek which has a high coefficient of friction on most surfaces. But ice is ice so to have any true performance on ice one really needs either:

- Metal attachments such as this:  http://www.calzaturificiodiemme.it/dettaglioprodotto.php?id=58&cat=alta%20quota&lang=ita

- Spike solutions such as Vibram Dyna Spike or attachable ice grippers, spikes or overshoes.

- Soles with kevlar-woven cotton which is embedded in circular patterns underfoot. Cotton has a vastly superior friction on ice compared to rubber or rubber compounds.

We are working to implement soles with kevlar-woven cotton in our AW14 collection, but the challenge is to work with Vibram to find or develop soles that have this technology but will also work aesthetically in the segment we are working in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Find Finn 


I though my tone was civil, you should here me when I'm angry then.

Prior to speaking to Norse, you guys and the resoling, I spoke with Diemme in Italy regarding doing a custom boot or sending them my boots for a resoling, but they thought shipping the boots back and forth would be too expensive.

I quoted the cobbler and he was referring to the quality not whether or not they were genuine and an eraser isn't the most durable thing to put under a pair of shoes, that will last 20+ years, (there's pictures of the result further back).

Never claimed it was a production error, a large disappointment and very frustrating having a pair of almost new shoes being worn down, yes.

I've spoken to Norse repeatedly about the soles and the laces, I asked directly about doing a special order with a commando sole or if it was in the program and it was no to both.

Regarding the laces, they said they were only offered in large mixed boxes, with laces in different colors including some no one wants, which was why they don't stock them.
I don't doubt the Christy's like the one RW's have are okay, but the other one, not so much.

The Bureau and TBS had them as well.

There are small-scale footwear producers that do artisan work and offer consumers to do special orders and send products in for repairs, and on the other side you have footwear manufacturers that produce larger volumes and produce at a number of different factories. Diemme is somewhere in between. Previously the production was more artisan and fragmented with no real collection but rather an archive of previous work that local distributors used to compose Diemme collections for their local markets. So you might have a German partner that focused on country boots, an Italian partner that sold casual shoes, and another partner that sold mountain boots. And there was also third party production for anything from more traditional UK country boots brands to fashion brands like Martin Margiela to luxury brands like Bottega Veneta and Chanel. Diemme is currently in a process where they are going from a more artisan and fragmented production to a more streamlined production focusing on their own brand with a worldwide collection.

We get requests from consumers that asks us to do custom boots, like you did. But the costs in terms of administration, material order minimums, shipping costs to get the materials in, a start-stop production, is massive when only producing a few units or just one pair. And the same goes with a repair service. It is not part of our strategy as it would conflict with how we need to work in order to keep our current price level. It is fantastic that some companies offer that kind of customisation and level of service, but this sort of service comes at a price - directly or indirectly - as it puts a strain on both administration and the factory floor. Our strategy is to use very high quality materials (we use some of the same leathers as Visvim which is 2-3 times as expensive), a high quality Italian production, but to keep the prices as low as possible so we can compete on price with brands that sell much higher volumes and do not use as expensive materials as us. It is all about the best possible value for money while maintaining a premium production, a large number of options in the collection, and with a small production volume per SKU. Our organisation is very tight and it is very efficient as the brand is also the factory, but we already have a large collection compared to our overall production volume so it would be impossible to keep our current price level if we were to offer customisation and a repair service. For repairs we recommend the Vibram shoemakers database: http://www.vibram.com/vibramrepair/calzolaio_affiliato.php?lingua=2

I'm afraid that you misinterpreted the pencil eraser analogy. The Shore A hardness is simply just how hard or soft the material is measured by a shore durometer. It is the abrasion resistance test that lets you know how rapidly the sole will wear down. A pencil eraser will have the same hardness as Morflex, but of course nowhere near the same abrasion resistance. The Cristy is from the same compound as Begonia Morflex, so there is no difference other than that the Cristy is a wedge sole and the Begonia Morflex is a thinner sheet. So with the Cristy you have a lot more compound to wear through before it becomes an issue.