Are button collars out-of-style?

I see a lot of people here upset that someone questioned what is considered an American style classic, when making an observation about the high visibility of spread collars. Is it such a dreadful shock that more than a handful of people might choose not to wear such a collar? The fact is it doesn't actually preponderate outside of the U.S.

Not such an unthinkable "noob" question after all.



Agatha Crusty said:

I'm very familiar with shirt and collar stylings. I already posted in another thread that I have made some of my own shirts and I'm well aware of it as an existing design and its place in, chiefly American, apparel. I don't remember claiming that it is a "wrong" design, but it's one I don't personally like. I also don't particularly like unlined collars, or trousers with turn-ups.

I don't think there's anything positive to be gained from implying that other people must be somehow ill-informed because they don't show the same level of enthusiasm for things that you happen to like.

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Agatha Crusty, the complaint you made, in light of the aesthetic goals typically associated with BD collars, would be like my complaining that patent leather shoes look "plasticky" and searching desperately for patent leather shoes with visible grain. You could maintain these aesthetic standards without the possibility of objective philosophical criticism, but it runs so sharply counter to normal aesthetics that the suggestion is one of unfamiliarity. Ditto saying that a Lagavulin 16 is just too "smoky", or that Lafite-Rothschild isn't sweet enough.

As for your supposed credentials, all I can find is a bunch of posts complaining that the supermarket should compensate you for a ripped shirt. I don't want to cast aspersions on your experience - prima facie was meant literally - I was just tired of n00bs pontificating without anything to back them up. But nobody benefits from internet slapfights, so why don't we just close up this thread and call it a day?

OCBDs won't go out of style anytime soon.



RSS said:

Your reasoning, dear sir?

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Could be because they're not available where he is. Button down collar shirts are not available here. Might be a regional thing, United States 'trad'?

Regardless of where they came from & when, the b/d collar is a hallmark of American style. You can buy it across the world online at places like J Crew or Mr. Porter, but it will always signal its American heritage whether you wear it with other clothes of this type (Brooks/trad/prep) or not. Agnelli liked his but he was hardly an Ivy League style dresser.

It is the most informal collar style you can wear with a tie.

I think it is more popular in the middle part of the country than here on the East Coast.

Guys making a big effort to 'style' will chose a spread or even a cutaway for the standard version of a stronger statement. This is why you see them so often on the forum.

They go in and out of fashion but are always in style. Whether their style identity has a place in your wardrobe is up to you.

The other thing to note is that you can really put buttons or even snaps on any collar, whether buttoning through or sewn underneath. Armani as put snaps underneath his collars for years, which has a neat effect until anyone unskillful irons them. Then you get little bits of shine. Collars with fabric pockets for hidden buttons get the same effect after one sub-expert laundering.

Also, you can put buttons on any kind of collar. The classic b/d collar has longer points, which is why buttons were thought needed to keep them from flapping about. But lately, as in the early 60s, you can find, at least on casual shirts, smaller-size spread collars and even club collars that button down.

Not exactly, I see them as more of a casual shirt, I mostly wear them when I am not going to have on a tie or with a sweater vest or something.



Bowtiedlad93 said:

Not exactly, I see them as more of a casual shirt, I mostly wear them when I am not going to have on a tie or with a sweater vest or something.

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Not exactly what?

And are you stating general guidelines or simply relaying your own personal taste?



mack11211 said:

Not exactly what?

And are you stating general guidelines or simply relaying your own personal taste?

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Well, he said: "...I see them as more of a casual shirt, I mostly wear them when I am not going to..." so my guess would be that he was stating his own point of view.



godofcoffee said:

Agatha Crusty, the complaint you made, in light of the aesthetic goals typically associated with BD collars, would be like my complaining that patent leather shoes look "plasticky" and searching desperately for patent leather shoes with visible grain. You could maintain these aesthetic standards without the possibility of objective philosophical criticism, but it runs so sharply counter to normal aesthetics that the suggestion is one of unfamiliarity. Ditto saying that a Lagavulin 16 is just too "smoky", or that Lafite-Rothschild isn't sweet enough.

As for your supposed credentials, all I can find is a bunch of posts complaining that the supermarket should compensate you for a ripped shirt. I don't want to cast aspersions on your experience - prima facie was meant literally - I was just tired of n00bs pontificating without anything to back them up. But nobody benefits from internet slapfights, so why don't we just close up this thread and call it a day?

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It's absolutely not like saying patent leather shoes look "plasticky", but it is analogous to a person who knows patent leather shoes are made of leather, and they are favoured by some other people, but who still decides they are not for him. Patent leather shoes are part of the general classic wardrobe, but they are not a universal standard.

And you made a real pejorative effort choosing your words to describe me merely as the author of: "a bunch of posts complaining that the supermarket should compensate you for a ripped shirt." They were not complaints, it was a legitimate situation. And even on that a large number of people decided I must be wrong, or merely a complainer because it didn't accord with their notions about how life ought to be lived "by a real man". Well **** them.

Credentials? Who on earth here has credentials making them the last word in universal taste and style? I don't, and neither do you. I merely stated my preferences and why I have them concerning button-down collars.

West Coast college boy here. All button down, all day every day.



t2russo said:

West Coast college boy here. All button down, all day every day.

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West Coast? Good God ... the 'prep' look has spread everywherre ... even beyond the land of real prep schools.



Elegantly Wasted said:

Well, he said: "...I see them as more of a casual shirt, I mostly wear them when I am not going to..." so my guess would be that he was stating his own point of view.

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+1 That is a lot of 'first person' there.



RSS said:

J, would you not take the cut of the suit into consideration? Honestly I can see doing this with a suit from Press (or similar) or Hickey Freeman or perhaps some of what Oxxford is making ... but not with a suit from Huntsman or Richard Anderson ... even if the hacking style has similarly horsey roots. That noted, I do wear them -- although not as frequently as other types of collars -- with sport coats.

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You make a good point. If I think I wanted a "softer," slightly more casual and accessible look while wearing a business suit, I wouldn't start out with something like Huntsman or Brioni. Since I can't afford Huntsman or Brioni, this is immaterial to me. Since I retired, I am down to only five suits, and two of those are very casual in styling. I'd like get a few more, but the paucity of occasions for wearing a suit makes it very hard to justify the expenditure.

I think they can look good with a pair of jeans or khakis. But like others have said, I would not recommend wearing them with a suit and tie. It would also be weird to wear them with dress pants.



musicguy said:

OCBDs won't go out of style anytime soon.

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+1