The Tailors' Thread: Fit Feedback and Alteration Suggestions

[n1tsuj]



If there's one suit you wanna get right despite the limited amount you'd wear it, it's the dinner suit...
And this one has major problems. Without just calling it a disaster, here's what you'd need to get done just to get it almost wearable:
Major work in the front balance primarily (so I think) which involves a collar recut. That's if the p2p isn't too small combined with excessive forepart waist suppression. I'd also close that center vent, but that's preference. Gotta take in the side seams up into the armholes to clean up around the blades. The jacket is short but not too short. The shirt sleeves are too long and the jacket sleeves too short. Pants probably need to be adjusted in the seat and/or rise.
Bottom line: $$$ for not the best results no matter how good the tailor.

I am having the suit jacket remade from scratch. The tailor said to ask for the sleeve length to be increased by 0.75 inches. The shoulders on this suit was decreased from 16 inches to 15.25 inches the shoulders on this suit make me seem small I don't know what do you guys think?

This is the Tuxedos Current Measurements any ideas on what areas need to be increased and decreased? number specific please?

Jacket/Shirt Length 27.25″
Chest Size 35.75″
Stomach Size 29.25″
Jacket Hips 36″
Shoulder Size 15.25″
Sleeve Length 22″
Bicep Size 13.75″
Wrist Size 9.75″

 

[OTCtailor]

I am having the suit jacket remade from scratch. The tailor said to ask for the sleeve length to be increased by 0.75 inches. The shoulders on this suit was decreased from 16 inches to 15.25 inches the shoulders on this suit make me seem small I don't know what do you guys think?

This is the Tuxedos Current Measurements any ideas on what areas need to be increased and decreased? number specific please?

Jacket/Shirt Length 27.25″
Chest Size 35.75″
Stomach Size 29.25″
Jacket Hips 36″
Shoulder Size 15.25″
Sleeve Length 22″
Bicep Size 13.75″
Wrist Size 9.75″

I don't know how that tailor works, but with your chest size, I would personally expect your shoulder point to point measurement to be at 17"...maybe 16.75 at the most narrow. I think "classic" would even be as much as 18.25" but I could be wrong.
The super narrow shoulder is definitely causing many of the problems you can see on that suit. Of course, visuals can be deceiving but this is what I think.

 

[OTCtailor]

Shirt fitting woes!
I have been reading about your concerns for a while but have refrained from posting since you have a few tailors who offer their observations already.

As a pattern maker and tailor, I am going to comment on some of common shirt fitting issues that seem to occur.
The shirt as a garment was designed to be loose fitting. As such, the pattern pieces reflect this. The shirt is not a fitted bodice. There are limitations in the standard shirt pattern to achieve a closer fit without significantly changing the pattern.

The shirt pattern is designed to have ease. A close fitting jacket typically is 10cm bigger than the chest and the shirt should be bigger than this. The armholes are typically lower as well.

The shirt sleeve pattern has a flatter sleeve head (depth of crown) and this, combined with the standard armhole shape, allows the arm to be raised more easily without lifting the side of the garment. It sits in the armhole in more of a " T" shape rather than how a jacket sleeve sits for instance.

The problem these days is that the fashion for closer and closer fitting garments is colliding with the traditional shirt pattern and fit. This, combined with well meaning but misunderstood concepts of how to make it fit closer causes no end of problems.

So here are a few things to think about with regards to the standard shirt pattern.

You cannot reduce the chest circumference radically or arbitrarily for a closer fit.

To do so forces the ease inherent in the shirt armhole to present as excess in front of the arm. Unless there is a seam or dart in the front that moves or removes the armhole ease, the ease is trapped there. If you raise the armhole at the same time, the issue is made worse.
The yoke seam in the back is used to accommodate the shape of the body, reducing some of the inherent ease in the back armhole, but the same thing applies, just to a lesser degree.
If you also make the cross back/ yoke too narrow and attempt to bring the shoulder line way up on the shoulder, the typical shirt sleeve with its flat crown will have to travel up over the upper arm onto the shoulder which the pattern is not shaped for. This often shows as vertical twisting and pulling drag lines in the sleeve toward the armpit. If you raise your arms to a horizontal level these pulls will likely be reduced only to reappear as your arms are lowered. The forward reaching motion may also feel restrictive with a narrow back and no ease pleat.
If you have reduced the armhole circumference too much, you may find that the sleeve is tight. It might not be big enough around the bicep, elbow and forearm for comfortable movement. As the arm bends, the muscles expand and there has to be ease in the sleeve.

The male body typically has more waist suppression in the back under the blades, so darts here are the best solution to clean up the back waist area. Some modification of the pattern can be done that will result in a change to the side seam, armhole and/or yoke seam, but only to a limited degree. To aggressively take in the side seams to reduce the fabric under the blade will result in dragging diagonal lines as the fabric that should lie under the blade is pulled forward.
If the overall waist is too small, the shirt will tend to lie against the belly and still have fullness under the blade.
If the waist is reduced radically, the shirt still needs to be large enough to get over the hips.If the hips are too tight, the shirt will ride up and not have the ease required to move back down during natural movement, and it will present as either horizontal wrinkling or billowing in the lower back depending on your shape and the tightness of the shirt.



To radically alter the fit of the shirt in the way people seem to want, would require an equally radical change to the shape of the standard pattern, and maybe the style of the shirt in general.
From what I have seen, I don't think this is happening. So perhaps being somewhat aware of the technical limitations of the pattern may help with fit expectations and issues.

I hope it helps explain things a little.

I personally really appreciate this bit of knowledge. I'm actually not very knowledgeable when it comes to what makes a shirt fit the way it does...at least not to this level of detail. Thanks for posting.

 

[Ttailor]

You're welcome.
I know it doesn't solve anyone's specific problems but maybe it will help in general.

 

[AdamWill]

that was super interesting, ttailor! It makes me feel a lot better about my traditionally fitting tailored shirts, too.

 

[timmygoestothez]

Here are two of my problematic sports. The first, I fear, is too big in the chest; this one also has collar gap issues. The second, on the other hand, is probably too short. (I think it's a regular, and I'm 6' 3".)

Are the issues with the tweed SC fixable?

(BTW, if other people agree that these jackets aren't going to work, anyone want to trade? I'm looking for 40Ls, especially slim fitting ones.)

BTW, I know that in some of the pics one of my arms looks shorter than the other. That's just because I was adjusting my phone with that arm; normally it doesn't look that way.

 

[sugarbutch]

We can't really assess if it's too short for you unless we get a full-length shot. From this, we can see that it's covering your ass, but we get no sense of the overall proportions. Overall, we've seen much worse here (and probably from me...)

 

[timmygoestothez]

Oops. Here are some full-length pictures. Thanks for your help!

 

[OTCtailor]

Oops. Here are some full-length pictures. Thanks for your help!

Can't go any shorter unless you're going for BB black fleece model shot...
Otherwise, I think if you're going to wear a jacket that is on the edge of being short or too short, you need to make sure your trousers are damn well-fitted back there...
Regarding the total fit...
they could both use some adjustments but the harris tweed needs more front suppression than back it looks. Also, the back balance on that jacket may be a little long causing that vent to open up.
The brown jacket is fairly clean but again needs more suppression in the front and the right sleeve could be lengthened. Same with the HT right sleeve. Sucks when you're low in one shoulder every jacket needs to be adjusted that way.

 

[timmygoestothez]

Thanks, that's very helpful. I'll try to trade the brown SC and see if a tailor can fix up the HT.

Can't go any shorter unless you're going for BB black fleece model shot...
Otherwise, I think if you're going to wear a jacket that is on the edge of being short or too short, you need to make sure your trousers are damn well-fitted back there...
Regarding the total fit...
they could both use some adjustments but the harris tweed needs more front suppression than back it looks. Also, the back balance on that jacket may be a little long causing that vent to open up.
The brown jacket is fairly clean but again needs more suppression in the front and the right sleeve could be lengthened. Same with the HT right sleeve. Sucks when you're low in one shoulder every jacket needs to be adjusted that way.

 

[sugarbutch]

I think the proportions of the brown jacket work pretty well for you. With some relatively slim trousers with a bit of drape, I think you'd be doing alright.

 

[dragulievic]

Hi guys I´d like to hear your opinion about this suit.
I bought it last week for a ridiculously low price and it´s a new Hugo Boss suit.
The material is really nice and has a "pleasant touch", it´s 80% virgin wool (herringbone pattern). It´s very soft, hence the wrinkles (+ the fact that the waist is a bit loose)...
The question is whether the shoulders are within the limits of "normality" or they should be altered if possible, I´m quite uncertain about it whether it looks OK or not.
But I think the shoulder pad is a bit longer than it should be. This is possibly because I´ve got sloping shoulders, I don´t know.
I am aware of the fact that the waist should be also altered and the sleeves are a bit long too, however, those can be altered much easier.
What is your overall opinion about the suit? Oh and please don´t be too stern, I just want a good looking suit but I know it won´t be perfect.
Thanks for the feedback!




This is what bothers me the most, my right shoulder but maybe it´s not that terrible as I think :

 

[TweedyProf]

What it seems you're describing can result from several different factors. OTR trousers have a longer back rise to accommodate for a variety of butt shapes. The bunching usually occurs from a low seat, flat seat, or with posterior pelvic tilt. It's basically shoving all the material hanging in the back rise down below your seat. The fix could be several things at once but most often it's lowering the back rise, scooping out the seat, and possibly taking in the stride.

That's interesting. In theory, if I pull up on the back on my trousers, would I see the bunching go away?

Is the fix you suggest a moderate job, from the tailoring point of view? Is it worth trying to do with a good tailor? I have to say if I tilt my hip back,a bit (stomach forward, seat pushing slightly back), the bunching goes away, and I get a nice line in the seam down the back. So it feels like I'm nearly there, if only a tailor could fix the trousers!

A second question: for those of us with a bow leg where the bow is outward (so concavity on the inner side of leg), can a slim trouser be cut? I am partial right now to about a 8.25 inch cuff opening, beginning with a 33 waist and 32 inch inseam. A fuller leg, I suppose, would help cover the bowleg, but I find these often to be too "full" in the leg. Any happy medium? I also take it that OTR slim trousers can't be readjusted for this problem (sigh).

Thanks again.

 

[TweedyProf]

Hi guys I´d like to hear your opinion about this suit.
I bought it last week for a ridiculously low price and it´s a new Hugo Boss suit.
The material is really nice and has a "pleasant touch", it´s 80% virgin wool (herringbone pattern). It´s very soft, hence the wrinkles (+ the fact that the waist is a bit loose)...
The question is whether the shoulders are within the limits of "normality" or they should be altered if possible, I´m quite uncertain about it whether it looks OK or not.
But I think the shoulder pad is a bit longer than it should be. This is possibly because I´ve got sloping shoulders, I don´t know.
I am aware of the fact that the waist should be also altered and the sleeves are a bit long too, however, those can be altered much easier.
What is your overall opinion about the suit? Oh and please don´t be too stern, I just want a good looking suit but I know it won´t be perfect.
Thanks for the feedback!




This is what bothers me the most, my right shoulder but maybe it´s not that terrible as I think :

Is there a slight divot on the left shoulder?

 

[dragulievic]

Yes it seems there is a small one.
Perhaps removing the pads would help?