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The Tailors' Thread: Fit Feedback and Alteration Suggestions - Page 271

post #4051 of 5371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

Pictures confirm my diagnosis but it goes further. You need the back taken out and shifted up. The back is a bit short in regard to proper balance. First balance the jacket and then adjust for the difference between your left and right shoulder. The shoulder is not narrow or too small. This jacket just needs to be fitted properly. Probably a full days work and most likely would require more time than that.

 

That sounds like a very intensive and expensive alteration. About how much would doing something like that cost? Should I just return the suit and go with another brand? 

post #4052 of 5371

I bought two sportcoats off EBAY recently.   I feel one works well and one not as much.  Comments welcomed

 

Good, Brooks Brothers Fitz.

 

 

Not as good; Brooks Regent Fit.  Photo might not be great but one issue is the shoulders seem to have more padding (too much to be casual).  The 3/2 roll doesn't roll enough so the button stance feels higher.  Overall fit seems not as good

 

 

 

post #4053 of 5371
You are correct. Finding someone who wants to or could do it is a bigger problem. You can't make any money doing alterations like that because you are literally reconstructing the garment. Sorry to open a can of worms.

What I described is how the original cutting should have been done to avoid the issue.

The easy fix that would make things at least 50% better is to open the center back seam and shift the left back panel up 3/8" to create more length over your left blade. That would get rid of the small diagonal wrinkle but it won't be as effective in getting the back to lie in at the bottom. It sort of flares up and away from your body at present. To get 75% better is to remake the shoulder, distributing more fullness over the back. to get to 90% open the left armhole and reduce the blade.

It would be difficult to find a tailor willing to do this or one who understands how doing this will resolve things.

The reason I am explaining this is all the other suggestions you have mentioned will have side effects that will then have to be adjusted for. It has to be altered correctly to make the wrinkles go away and not return and to not be uncomfortable or look worse than what you see now. Recutting the back solves the core issue that created the wrinkles you see and will improve the fit which improves the comfort and the look.
post #4054 of 5371

So, I took a new set of photos after letting the suit hang in the bathroom a couple days.  I've been having discussions with black lapel about how to better manage a lower right shoulder.  I had originally selected tailored fit, lower right shoulder.  I think the overall fit is too fitted and will add 0.5" to the biceps and 1" to the stomach.  For some reason, the left sleeve is 0.5" longer when measured from the shoulder seam.  They suggested decreasing the chest measurement to reduce some of the material behind my left shoulder.  They will also try to adjust the sleeve pitch to help with the pulling behind the right bicep and a little behind the left bicep.  I will also add 0.75" back to the thigh down to the ankle as well as enlarge the opening a bit to 8".  I'm also wondering why the material is bunching so much under my butt.  Any thoughts on all this?  This is my first attempt with black lapel.  Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #4055 of 5371
Quote:
Originally Posted by shendo View Post
 

 

That sounds like a very intensive and expensive alteration. About how much would doing something like that cost? Should I just return the suit and go with another brand? 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

You are correct. Finding someone who wants to or could do it is a bigger problem. You can't make any money doing alterations like that because you are literally reconstructing the garment. Sorry to open a can of worms.

What I described is how the original cutting should have been done to avoid the issue.

The easy fix that would make things at least 50% better is to open the center back seam and shift the left back panel up 3/8" to create more length over your left blade. That would get rid of the small diagonal wrinkle but it won't be as effective in getting the back to lie in at the bottom. It sort of flares up and away from your body at present. To get 75% better is to remake the shoulder, distributing more fullness over the back. to get to 90% open the left armhole and reduce the blade.

It would be difficult to find a tailor willing to do this or one who understands how doing this will resolve things.

The reason I am explaining this is all the other suggestions you have mentioned will have side effects that will then have to be adjusted for. It has to be altered correctly to make the wrinkles go away and not return and to not be uncomfortable or look worse than what you see now. Recutting the back solves the core issue that created the wrinkles you see and will improve the fit which improves the comfort and the look.

If someone had brought this jacket to me, even in my limited knowledge compared to despos (I've been at this as a skilled alterations tailor for about 3 years), I'd see the short balance and the fullness at the back of the left blade under the armhole. It's easy to discern the the crosswise wrinkles are indeed caused by prominent shoulder blades. There are some old school tailoring tricks that will actually place a piece of material/padding at the center back to sortof fill in that area inbetween your blades in. I have never done this but have read about it. 

The stuff that Despos is talking about in removing the back, shifting that left panel upwards for a balance correction, then basting the fullness at the back shoulder seam (which also involves considerable ironwork), and finally recutting that left armhole is truly a huge job. It definitely requires the hands of a skilled tailor...a highly skilled tailor. If the job came to me and let's say it was a garment that was very special to you or a family heirloom or something and it was incredibly valuable, I'd have to turn it down based less on the total lack of profit in the work but more on that I'm not certain that my current skill level is there to do all that work properly. I consider myself to be highly skilled in the alterations area but my knowledge is limited when it comes to recrafting armholes especially after shifting a fabric panel and completely changing the original position. It has everything to do with my lack of experience in drafting/grading patterns. That's a level of tailoring that's just a bit beyond my own skillset.

FYI I'm not suggesting you travel to my area for this, just proposing a hypothetical...

 

What I'm ultimately trying to suggest is that if I were you and the problem really bothered me, I'd return it or have it remade. A truly skilled tailor would have to be the one to take the afrorementioned job on and the cost would likely be close to what you may have paid for the garment, anyway. 

 

If you were to have it remade or you plan on going down the MTM road again in the near future, I also strongly suggest you visit a tailor who truly sees and understands how to sortof 'diagnose' your body stance and posture the way Despos does. Beyond the diagnosis is making sure that the tailor has the necessary synergy with their MTM provider to properly account for and correctly create a garment to fit around those areas of concern. After all, who cares if we can see your posture if the MTM provider can't or doesn't want to correct for it? Most decent MTM providers do indeed have the ability to account and correct but it's all in the hands of the person measuring/selling etc. In my humble, but entirely accurate opinion, you need to see a tailor before you go through your next MTM commission.

 

If you have jackets that are OTR that fit better than this, to me it's not a big surprise. Softer cloth with more give will do that and, quite frankly, I don't bash OTR/RTW because some truly complex configurations and considerations go into them making patterns before making garments. I have learned a ton of valuable info and new skills from studying RTW garments.

post #4056 of 5371
Quote:
Originally Posted by blulegend View Post
 

So, I took a new set of photos after letting the suit hang in the bathroom a couple days.  I've been having discussions with black lapel about how to better manage a lower right shoulder.  I had originally selected tailored fit, lower right shoulder.  I think the overall fit is too fitted and will add 0.5" to the biceps and 1" to the stomach.  For some reason, the left sleeve is 0.5" longer when measured from the shoulder seam.  They suggested decreasing the chest measurement to reduce some of the material behind my left shoulder.  They will also try to adjust the sleeve pitch to help with the pulling behind the right bicep and a little behind the left bicep.  I will also add 0.75" back to the thigh down to the ankle as well as enlarge the opening a bit to 8".  I'm also wondering why the material is bunching so much under my butt.  Any thoughts on all this?  This is my first attempt with black lapel.  Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

First off...great pictures. Everyone reading this thread thinking about posting photos for fit critique please copy how this guy did his pics. It's really important.

 

Onto your issues...

If you've been following that last page or so of posts between Despos and shendo, your fit problems are actually very similar. In fact, I had to double check to see if you were the same guy or not. Yours, however, are not quite as severe.

Looking at the pictures above...

Obviously, I'm not familiar with Black Lapel's system of measuring etc but reducing the chest measure is not what I'd do. It could just make the whole upper body tighter while still leaving that problem in the back. Or it may cause lapel gaping. 

THe issues are mostly at the back resulting from low right shoulder and slightly more prominent left blade. The evidence is easy to see in the photo with the jacket unbuttoned. They may have compensated with a slightly longer left sleeve because it's easy to see in the photos that your left arm is a little longer than your right.

The total fix for the jacket may not be something they're equipped or willing to do.

 

Regarding the trousers...they're not cut correctly for a forward hip posture. The result is a collapse of excess length down the back of the legs.

Maybe they can/can't account for this?

The fix in alterations is straightening the seat angle which may involve having the take the seat in thru the back part of hips at the side seams only, then hollowing the seat curve, letting out the back fork some, increasing the front rise some(may not be possible on finished trousers), decreasing the back rise some . Also, good ironwork on the back part of the leg is pretty crucial.

For an alterations tailor, the job is pretty intense. Also quite expensive. See if they can account for forward hips, flat seat.

post #4057 of 5371
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean anon View Post
 

I bought two sportcoats off EBAY recently.   I feel one works well and one not as much.  Comments welcomed

 

Good, Brooks Brothers Fitz.

 

 

Not as good; Brooks Regent Fit.  Photo might not be great but one issue is the shoulders seem to have more padding (too much to be casual).  The 3/2 roll doesn't roll enough so the button stance feels higher.  Overall fit seems not as good

 

 

 

On the plaid jacket, the overall construction/style is just different so that's why it does feel good to you. The most major fitting problem that I see is sleeves that may be too short.

post #4058 of 5371
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTCtailor View Post
 

On the plaid jacket, the overall construction/style is just different so that's why it does feel good to you. The most major fitting problem that I see is sleeves that may be too short.

Thanks for the comments.  I like the lapel on the brown sportcoat (medium with a higher gorge) but otherwise the Fitz is better.  I think it is the higher armholes and the lighter shoulders.  Is there anything else I am missing?  I am still trying to figure this all out.


Any comments on Italian brands (I assume) that would combine these elements that I can search on EBAY?  Lightly padded or not padding in the shoulders and higher armholes and lighter interlining?  Medium slim fit

post #4059 of 5371
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean anon View Post
 

Thanks for the comments.  I like the lapel on the brown sportcoat (medium with a higher gorge) but otherwise the Fitz is better.  I think it is the higher armholes and the lighter shoulders.  Is there anything else I am missing?  I am still trying to figure this all out.


Any comments on Italian brands (I assume) that would combine these elements that I can search on EBAY?  Lightly padded or not padding in the shoulders and higher armholes and lighter interlining?  Medium slim fit

No idea on other brands but I think Zegna couture may be something you'd be interested in if you can find it.

post #4060 of 5371

Thank you for your time responding on my issues, Despos. It seems I've got odd areas on my back that really needs the services of a master tailor and a bespoke suit. Unless I go full-on custom, I think I'm doomed to have a messy back with wrinkles and creases. Sadly, this may be the case since my budget won't allow me to spend that much for one suit. I really appreciate the information about my various fit issues though, it will help on what to look out for in purchases and alterations.

 

 

 

Thanks for the post, OTCtailor. I'll see what they say but it's not an expensive MTM suit so I'm not sure they will go to that level of custom cutting for balance. It doesn't hurt to ask, though.

 

OTR sort of fit better than this particular suit. They don't have the wrinkles in the middle of the upper back but I think I still get bulges and wrinkles from my protruding shoulder blades. I also tend to get the horizontal crease on the left side caused by the prominent high left blade. In fact, the t-shirt I'm wearing now has a faint bulges from the blades and a light horizontal crease running down the left of my back.

 

 

Are there any quick fixes for that horizontal crease on the left? Maybe taking the extra fabric into the seam or into the armhole? I know it's not ideal but I don't think I can find a tailor that will shift the entire back or be able to pay them to do so. It won't be perfect but at least my back could be made to look decent.

post #4061 of 5371
Your issue is more common than you think. I see this from prominent blades frequently. Again, I explained what is going on to avoid having someone add a pad or anything else that wouldn't be effective and possibly cause other problems and you would be more frustrated.

The center back between the blades needs to be shrunk with an iron to smooth out the center back seam. An experienced tailor could shift the back and solve most of the wrinkles.
post #4062 of 5371
OK, a trouser fit question. Trouser fit is still something of a black magic to me.

I have ordered a trial pair of pants before making a larger order, and they are not hanging cleanly from the back. They are bunching up under the seat. These are MTM (Luxire) so I want to know what to tell the tailor to adjust to resolve this as best as possible.

My first thought is to lower the rear rise by a good inch or so.

Apologies for all the wrinkles and such--these are right out of the box. They fit decently the rest of the way around, though I will probably widen out the leg a bit.

Many thanks for the help!

Wrinkly pants (Click to show)


post #4063 of 5371
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTCtailor View Post


Regarding the trousers...they're not cut correctly for a forward hip posture. The result is a collapse of excess length down the back of the legs.
Maybe they can/can't account for this?
The fix in alterations is straightening the seat angle which may involve having the take the seat in thru the back part of hips at the side seams only, then hollowing the seat curve, letting out the back fork some, increasing the front rise some(may not be possible on finished trousers), decreasing the back rise some . Also, good ironwork on the back part of the leg is pretty crucial.
For an alterations tailor, the job is pretty intense. Also quite expensive. See if they can account for forward hips, flat seat.

I'll highlight this for my own and perhaps Aravenel's benefit. For my own edification, can you show me how you'd alter a standard pant pattern to make these changes? Others may benefit from the description you gave above for alterations, and I thank you for that. I'd love to see a visual change on a paper pattern if you have the ability, that might help those like myself who are trying to learn more about how changes to patterns affect fit.
As an aside, do you think curving the leg around the calf would have any benefit? I saw this picture from Ambrosi and wondered why more pants don't look like this. Does it actually help the way the trousers fall, i.e., the line of the trousers?
post #4064 of 5371

I'm only a third of the way through this thread and I already think this is the bestest thread so far. BUT, too many of you have anonymously flat stomachs. I want to see more photos of clothes that fit well on mature men with portly bellies that have been lovingly shaped from years of d'Yquem and foie gras.

post #4065 of 5371

This is my first suit.  It is Macy's Bar III charcoal solid in extra slim fit in size 36S.  The pants are 30x30.  It was around $200.  For reference, I am 5'5" and weigh 120 lb.  I have not altered it yet.  

 

My impression is the chest and back area is too roomy.  The shoulders may be a little bit wide and the back has a lot of excess fabric. The pants are too long and waist is too large.  The vent has not been cut open yet so not I'm not sure how that affects the fit. 

 

So I'm wondering if I should return it, alter it, or go MTM.  What alterations should I do and around how much that would cost?  My initial thoughts would be at least the back, sleeve length, pant waist and pant length.  I'm not sure what should be done for the chest and waist.  

 

Thanks for your feedback.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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