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Dispute CC Charge? - Page 4

post #46 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodum5
a $9 tip on a $0.41 bill is really good. Where is this 20% coming from?

I imagine they are using the $40 as approximately what you should have paid given what you ordered.

As far as that goes, what do you guys think about tipping when you use a coupon? Let's say your bill was $40 but you have a coupon to make it $20. Do you leave a $6 tip, or $3?
post #47 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by drizzt3117
I

As far as that goes, what do you guys think about tipping when you use a coupon? Let's say your bill was $40 but you have a coupon to make it $20. Do you leave a $6 tip, or $3?

I never left a tip at the bodega.
post #48 of 62
Thread Starter 
I'd say tip on the original charge. So tip based on $40.
post #49 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by drizzt3117
I imagine they are using the $40 as approximately what you should have paid given what you ordered.

As far as that goes, what do you guys think about tipping when you use a coupon? Let's say your bill was $40 but you have a coupon to make it $20. Do you leave a $6 tip, or $3?

You tip $6. The waitress gets no benefit from the coupon. She shouldn't be penalized for it either.

As to some of the other questions, in a bar in, say, NYC, if you're running a tab, you hand the bartender your credit card with the first round. When you're done, you make that little signing-in-the-air motion and he runs your card. You don't expect him to present you with a bill for your examination, because that just slows everything down. So the way the OP was presented with the bill is not unusual in a bar (as opposed to a restaurant).

My personal view is that disputing the charge is karmically bad. You lost your free drinks, but that was "found" money anyway. Easy come, easy go. I would've let it go. If the bar wants to press it and has the itemized tab, they could prove that you owed the 49.15 or so, meaning you could lose the dispute. But it may not be worth their while.
post #50 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodum5
a $9 tip on a $0.41 bill is really good. Where is this 20% coming from?
You ordered $40-50 worth of drinks and clearly were well aware of what their expected cost was. This is a little more of a gray area than the firm percentage rule, but, when getting a discounted tab, it is also considered good form to take into account the amount of service received and base your tip off the standard cost of the goods ordered. In other words, if you're using a waiter or bartender, but have the bill substantially reduced or whittled down to nothing by virtue of comps (the obvious exception would be if the comp was a manager's response to an unsatisfactory experience), gift certificates, or the use of promotional items, that doesn't make it ok to stiff the server just because your bill was zero or a negligible dollar amount. You still fill space that could otherwise be used for standard customers who would tip according to social norms, you still require the efforts of the server to bring you your drinks (and prepare them, since you ordered from the bar), and you still require time and energy from the server that, again, could otherwise be used to wait on other income-providing customers. One common standard I've often seen used for bar tipping (and that comes close to what I average during my shifts) is that $1/drink is a not unreasonable amount to tip for a bartender who does a proper job of preparing the drinks and bringing them over in a timely manner. You ordered 8 drinks from the bar, and many people would argue that it would be rude of you to tip much lower than $8 regardless of how much the tab was presented to you as. From that perspective, your $9 tip was only a little bit above the norm, enough to make any bartender perfectly happy, but by no means enough to act like you were doing the bar an exceptional favor and going way above and beyond. Edited to include a brief response to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by drizzt3117
I imagine they are using the $40 as approximately what you should have paid given what you ordered. As far as that goes, what do you guys think about tipping when you use a coupon? Let's say your bill was $40 but you have a coupon to make it $20. Do you leave a $6 tip, or $3?
See my post above. Some places treat comps/coupons as a part of the sales total that gets counted into the required tipout, most don't, I believe. Again, it's going to vary, but some places will also count them towards the sales total that is used to calculate taxable tip income for reports to the IRS. Regardless of how the establishment's figures may work, you're still taking up space that could be used for other customers, recieving service from the server, and taking up a share of the limited time that the server has to expend on customers for the purpose of income. Reducing your tip because of a coupon is arbitrarily slashing a proportionate amount of a server's income and penalizing them for something beyond his control, despite the fact that you required the same service that would be bestowed onto a full price diner.
post #51 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by grimslade

My personal view is that disputing the charge is karmically bad. You lost your free drinks, but that was "found" money anyway. Easy come, easy go. I would've let it go. If the bar wants to press it and has the itemized tab, they could prove that you owed the 49.15 or so, meaning you could lose the dispute. But it may not be worth their while.

Hello Grim,

if I find Mr Grey Eyebrows, can I arrange you to join us, at the beergarden?
post #52 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by aybojs
You ordered $40-50 worth of drinks and clearly were well aware of what their expected cost was. This is a little more of a gray area than the firm percentage rule, but, when getting a discounted tab, it is also considered good form to take into account the amount of service received and base your tip off the standard cost of the goods ordered. In other words, if you're using a waiter or bartender, but have the bill substantially reduced or whittled down to nothing by virtue of comps (the obvious exception would be if the comp was a manager's response to an unsatisfactory experience), gift certificates, or the use of promotional items, that doesn't make it ok to stiff the server just because your bill was zero or a negligible dollar amount. You still fill space that could otherwise be used for standard customers who would tip according to social norms, you still require the efforts of the server to bring you your drinks (and prepare them, since you ordered from the bar), and you still require time and energy from the server that, again, could otherwise be used to wait on other income-providing customers.

One common standard I've often seen used for bar tipping (and that comes close to what I average during my shifts) is that $1/drink is a not unreasonable amount to tip for a bartender who does a proper job of preparing the drinks and bringing them over in a timely manner. You ordered 8 drinks from the bar, and many people would argue that it would be rude of you to tip much lower than $8 regardless of how much the tab was presented to you as. From that perspective, your $9 tip was only a little bit above the norm, enough to make any bartender perfectly happy, but by no means enough to act like you were doing the bar an exceptional favor and going way above and beyond.

Edited to include a brief response to:



See my post above. Some places treat comps/coupons as a part of the sales total that gets counted into the required tipout, most don't, I believe. Again, it's going to vary, but some places will also count them towards the sales total that is used to calculate taxable tip income for reports to the IRS. Regardless of how the establishment's figures may work, you're still taking up space that could be used for other customers, recieving service from the server, and taking up a share of the limited time that the server has to expend on customers for the purpose of income. Reducing your tip because of a coupon is arbitrarily slashing a proportionate amount of a server's income and penalizing them for something beyond his control, despite the fact that you required the same service that would be bestowed onto a full price diner.

I would probably agree with that, as long as you get the same level of service that they would give a full price diner.
post #53 of 62
LOL.
i m sorry fellas but has not this discussion been overdrawn out by now?

post #54 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaclava krishna
Hello Grim,

if I find Mr Grey Eyebrows, can I arrange you to join us, at the beergarden?


Vaclav,

of course. just let me know.
post #55 of 62
This logic flabbergasts me. If you get $40 free drinks, I believe that some of it should be kicked back to the person who made those drinks free for you. Depending on situations, you should kick in anywhere from 25% to 75% of what you get "free" back to the person who served you. Isn't that just a nice thing to do? And aside from that, it also leaves the door open for future gratis drinks.

Similarly, what I would do with a coupon (although I rarely use restaurant coupons) is actually "split" the discount with the server, kicking in a bigger tip to the server while I take some of the cost savings as well. It's a win/win.
post #56 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by diorshoe
LOL.
i m sorry fellas but has not this discussion been overdrawn out by now?



Ha thank you! It's funny that I started this thread and I'm probably the one who thinks it's become the most ridiculous
post #57 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodum5
Ha thank you! It's funny that I started this thread and I'm probably the one who thinks it's become the most ridiculous

That's probably because it is your actions that are being criticized

An antagonistic comment, I know.

K
post #58 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodum5
Ha thank you! It's funny that I started this thread and I'm probably the one who thinks it's become the most ridiculous
Just wondering what happened with this. Also, I need to fess up to some hypocrisy. I gave Jodum5 a hard time because I thought he should have brought the billing error to the bartender's attention. Last week I bought a new digital camera. The price was quoted by the salesman at 38,000 yen; the cashier punched it in a 30,800 yen (that's the equivilant of say...$380 and $308). I didn't say a word.
post #59 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter
Just wondering what happened with this.

Also, I need to fess up to some hypocrisy. I gave Jodum5 a hard time because I thought he should have brought the billing error to the bartender's attention. Last week I bought a new digital camera. The price was quoted by the salesman at 38,000 yen; the cashier punched it in a 30,800 yen (that's the equivilant of say...$380 and $308).

I didn't say a word.

Your criticism of Jodum would be hypocritical if you received a credit card bill for the true amount of 38K yen and proceeded to dispute the charge with Visa on the basis of the cashier's error.
post #60 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by EL72
Your criticism of Jodum would be hypocritical if you received a credit card bill for the true amount of 38K yen and proceeded to dispute the charge with Visa on the basis of the cashier's error.

semantics. his hypocrisy is in acting immorally while chiming the moral bell.

seed
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