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Dispute CC Charge? - Page 3

post #31 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodum5
UNfortunately for you, I signed the receipt stating "I Agree to pay above total according to my card issuer agreement". The total had the original $.41 charge and my tip plus the total of that. And I gave it to the bartender who picked it up and finished his work. My friends and did not run out of the bar at that moment. We sat back down at a table a few feet from the bar and finished our drink and then left. I find it hard to believe some of you here agree with an establishment changing their charge on your credit card behind you back. That's essentially why I'm disputing it.
I think I misread your post before. Am I right that (to the extent you can recall, since it sounds like you might be uncertain) you put a tip of $10 or thereabouts on the credit card in addition to leaving $40 cash, so the bar (if we assume they actually got the cash and a server or somebody else didn't pocket it) would have had a total of roughly $50 against a tab of about $42 if they hadn't changed the amount billed to your card?
I don't disagree that a merchant shouldn't be able to change the amount billed to your credit card without your authorization. Nor do I understand anybody else to dispute that in the abstract. I think what some of us were questioning were whether it shouldn't be viewed as a "no harm, no foul" and whether you shouldn't just let it go. It sounds like the solution the credit card company is proposing - basically refunding you enough money to put you back where you would have been if the original bill had been correct and no large cash tip had been left - is pretty reasonable, no?
post #32 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad
I think I misread your post before. Am I right that (to the extent you can recall, since it sounds like you might be uncertain) you put a tip of $10 or thereabouts on the credit card in addition to leaving $40 cash, so the bar (if we assume they actually got the cash and a server or somebody else didn't pocket it) would have had a total of roughly $50 against a tab of about $42 if they hadn't changed the amount billed to your card?
I don't disagree that a merchant shouldn't be able to change the amount billed to your credit card without your authorization. Nor do I understand anybody else to dispute that in the abstract. I think what some of us were questioning were whether it shouldn't be viewed as a "no harm, no foul" and whether you shouldn't just let it go. It sounds like the solution the credit card company is proposing - basically refunding you enough money to put you back where you would have been if the original bill had been correct and no large cash tip had been left - is pretty reasonable, no?

I'm pretty sure he left ~$9 charge tip and no cash tip, b/c he was happy he was ahead $40, and wants to get back to being ahead $40.
post #33 of 62
Did I miss this? You didnt get an itemized "bill" with a total ahead of time and just let the barman swipe your card? At which time, the amout was .41 and you just added your tip?

Very trusting of you to let him run your card, and not even ask to see the check.....

If you saw the check, then you knew the total, and you knew that the .41 was a mistake. I don't agree with merchants charging more than the signed amount, but I also think that once a bill is presented to you, its your obligation to ensure that you pay it in full.

Sounds like a punk move to me that you didnt settle the rest of it on the spot.

K
post #34 of 62
Thread Starter 
YEah no large cash tip. Everything was on card and it shouldve come to just under $10.

Anyway the initial point of this thread were for thoughts on the situation, which I got. No problem with those who feel I should've taken the charge or those who said I should dispute it. I do have a problem with people calling me a thief or a sleaze
post #35 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by drizzt3117
I'm pretty sure he left ~$9 charge tip and no cash tip, b/c he was happy he was ahead $40, and wants to get back to being ahead $40.
Ok, thanks. Apparently I read it wrong twice.
post #36 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VKK3450
Did I miss this?

K

Yes you did.

Edit: I just re read my original post and I guess it was too vague for some to understand. When I said I got a $.41 tab, I meant that I closed my tab and got a bill for $.41. I looked at it, added my tip and then left it on the bar for the bartender. He took it and I never heard back from him. I took the final drinks I ordered (before I closed the tab) to my table quite close to the bar itself and we (I and my friends) finished our drinks and left after about 10mins. Let me know if thats not clear enough now VKK.

Oh by the way, in the U.S. when you get your bill you get a sub total (cost of drinks/food), a spot for a tip (optional but expected) and then the total (customer enters subtotal and tip) then a spot for a signature. You sign the merchant copy and keep two other copies (duplicate of Merchant copy) and one copy with just the subtotal on it.

- signing off.
post #37 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodum5
Yes you did.

So you didnt know what the full bill was then? Before the barman ran your card?

K
post #38 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodum5
Yes you did.

Edit: I just re read my original post and I guess it was too vague for some to understand. When I said I got a $.41 tab, I meant that I closed my tab and got a bill for $.41. I looked at it, added my tip and then left it on the bar for the bartender. He took it and I never heard back from him. I took the final drinks I ordered (before I closed the tab) to my table quite close to the bar itself and we (I and my friends) finished our drinks and left after about 10mins. Let me know if thats not clear enough now VKK.

- signing off.

It sounds as if your bill was probably for $41.00 but the waiter mistakenly filled the 41 into the wrong column.

Why didn't you just mention it to the waiter that he had undercharged you?
post #39 of 62
During the holidays, you should leave extra tips, and a spiritual quotation on the bill.
post #40 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodum5
Yes you did.

Edit: I just re read my original post and I guess it was too vague for some to understand. When I said I got a $.41 tab, I meant that I closed my tab and got a bill for $.41. I looked at it, added my tip and then left it on the bar for the bartender. He took it and I never heard back from him. I took the final drinks I ordered (before I closed the tab) to my table quite close to the bar itself and we (I and my friends) finished our drinks and left after about 10mins. Let me know if thats not clear enough now VKK.

Oh by the way, in the U.S. when you get your bill you get a sub total (cost of drinks/food), a spot for a tip (optional but expected) and then the total (customer enters subtotal and tip) then a spot for a signature. You sign the merchant copy and keep two other copies (duplicate of Merchant copy) and one copy with just the subtotal on it.

- signing off.

I'm American, grew up in the US, and am familiar with how credit cards work there. Similar to many other places in the world. Thanks for the refresher though

My point was that I find it surprising that you would have the bartender just run your card without knowing the total. And if you had known the total, or had the inkling that there was an honest mistake involved, then....

Ehhh whatever, different strokes for different folks. Your original question was not what we thought about your actions in the bar anyways.

K
post #41 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaclava krishna
During the holidays, you should leave extra tips, and a spiritual quotation on the bill.

I agree. A kind word goes nicely with the holiday season

K
post #42 of 62
I'm willing to admit that depending on how I feel, I'll occasionally let an err in my favour go unnoticed. But if I end up getting burned for my greed, I should chalk it up to karma instead of calling foul. Besides, any waitpeople on here will tell you: $10 isn't that awesome of a tip on a $50 bill.
post #43 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared
I'm willing to admit that depending on how I feel, I'll occasionally let an err in my favour go unnoticed. But if I end up getting burned for my greed, I should chalk it up to karma instead of calling foul. Besides, any waitpeople on here will tell you: $10 isn't that awesome of a tip on a $50 bill.

A $50 bar bill isn't the same as a $50 food bill. The server is taking your order, putting 4-5 drinks on a tray, and carrying it back, for $10. I don't think that's too bad, do you?
post #44 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by drizzt3117
A $50 bar bill isn't the same as a $50 food bill. The server is taking your order, putting 4-5 drinks on a tray, and carrying it back, for $10. I don't think that's too bad, do you?
It depends. If you're ordering from a cocktail waitress, you should definitely follow the same standards as if you were ordering food, because waitresses will have to tip out the same on drink sales (or even more, if it's a place where an additional cut is given to the bartenders on alcohol sales) as on food sales. You'd actually be surprised how tricky carrying a tray full of delicate, liquid-filled glasses can be for a waitress having to squeeze her way through through a large standing and moving crowd; it's a different dynamic than carrying a tray of food through a clear pathway of tables to some seated diners. Bartenders have it a little easier in that they typically don't have to tip out a percentage of sales and have their own space to move around and drop off drinks in, but they're still expected to crank out drinks at a high rate and juggle a large number of server orders, customer orders, tab records, etc. Beyond that, tipping a bartender admitedly also has its bribe-like aspects: being known as a good tipper tends to result in getting faster attention to drink needs, more attention to the preparation of individual drink orders, and in less well-ordered places the occasional free drink, or extra-strong drink. I don't do the latter at work, nor do I go out of my way to provide shitty service to bad tippers, but any bartender is conscious of the fact that it is more efficient and beneficial for them to place a priority on serving people who tip well over people who don't, and that can come into a play on a busy night when you see the high-spending regulars being offered new drinks the second their current ones look low while the curmudgeon in the corner has to struggle to get his order taken. Anyway, it seems to me that Jared's point was not that $10 on a $50 tab constitutes a bad tip: any server would be delighted to get a 20% tip. However, his observation was that there is a huge disconnect between the OP's apparent attitude that his 20% tip was an exceptional favor only done because he got $50 worth of free drinks (thereby implying that he probably would have left a much lower tip, perhaps to the point of being way out-of-touch with conventional etiquette low, had he been presented with the proper total on the check), when in reality even a mediocre server/bartender at a bar will see more than a handful of 20%+ tips on an average day at work and not consider 20% an unusually large amount, let alone something that will cause his jaw to drop in awe. To reiterate, Jared is saying that while 20% is a damn fine tip, it's not too far off from the average and certainly isn't unheard of; the implication being that the OP's impression that his 20% was an enormous gift (his shifty behavior in the thread notwithstanding) suggests that he is probably a poor tipper on average.
post #45 of 62
Thread Starter 
a $9 tip on a $0.41 bill is really good. Where is this 20% coming from?
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