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Eames Lounge Chair copies... worth it? - Page 54

post #796 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistoffat View Post

Just one question. Why buy too fakes at just over 3 grand when HM are selling the real thing including Ottoman for 4800$.
The fakes are worth very little on the used market whereas the HM will keep a large part of its current value.

Well, seeing that I sold the old chair on craigslist and recouped what I originally paid, I haven't spent $3000. But even if I did, that amount is still cheaper than a HM version. It's all about what is in your budget and buying a $5000 chair will never be in mine. My post was to help others hopefully make an informed decision about purchasing a replica and my experience with this particular brand. Implying that I didn't spend my money wisely is rather rude.
post #797 of 933
Stating that you supported the fake industry which doesn´t respect copyright laws....that would be rude. I don´t believe you got your money back on the first fake and as you said yourself it quality way very disappointing. So you passed the rubbish on to someone else which means its all about the money and not about the product. There are a lot of things I cannot afford but I can appreciate them without having to buy a fake. I personally could never be happy knowing something is a fake be it a Rolex or a lounge chair. If your financial situation changes I am assured your attitude to the chair will change a s well.
post #798 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistoffat View Post

Stating that you supported the fake industry which doesn´t respect copyright laws....that would be rude. I don´t believe you got your money back on the first fake and as you said yourself it quality way very disappointing. So you passed the rubbish on to someone else which means its all about the money and not about the product. There are a lot of things I cannot afford but I can appreciate them without having to buy a fake. I personally could never be happy knowing something is a fake be it a Rolex or a lounge chair. If your financial situation changes I am assured your attitude to the chair will change a s well.


Some of you all have trouble accepting that others do not hold the same values you do. To that they really don't care about copyright laws, respecting the designer's legacy, etc, etc. They just want an item for their home that resembles the classic piece they desire. Beyond that the only real concern is where to turn to find one that is as well made as the budget they have allows. No amount of words will change this, so why spend so much energy trying to do so?

The only way to stop it is to go after the people who create the replicas.
post #799 of 933
Also don't forget that design patents, like other patents, expire quickly. In fact, the whole goal of the patent system is to force publication of the ideas (more important in utility patents than in design... Like if someone came up with a new material technique for making chairs).

I believe the eames lounge is protected as "trade dress", so exact copies aren't actually legal... But even that is kind of dubious and is only because companies like Herman Miller and knoll have a lot more money to throw at lawyers than the people making fake chairs. So the moneymaking perpetual designs get all the protection money can buy... But lots of other designs have no legal issues in the US.
post #800 of 933
The problem is that in most countries, where replicas are illegal, it's only illegal, to sell them or to buy and use in a business.

Private buyers are exempt from the law, which is completely ridiculous and this results in them selling their replicas eventhough it's illegal and the police doesn't have resources to go after them.

If something is illegal, it should illegal on all levels.
post #801 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Mouse View Post

Some of you all have trouble accepting that others do not hold the same values you do. To that they really don't care about copyright laws, respecting the designer's legacy, etc, etc. They just want an item for their home that resembles the classic piece they desire. Beyond that the only real concern is where to turn to find one that is as well made as the budget they have allows. No amount of words will change this, so why spend so much energy trying to do so?

The only way to stop it is to go after the people who create the replicas.

If intellectual property is not to be respected then many of the product innovations we have, whether in the fields of furniture or medicine might otherwise not have been created.

Where I might agree that an Eames Chair is overpriced , I also respect that Vitra and Herman Miller have a staff to pay and also need funds to create the Eames Chairs of tomorrow. I don´t see the companies making fakes being creative and offering us innovative new products thus creating employment and paying taxes thus benefiting society.
post #802 of 933

Thanks so much, sbrentn, for the recommendation for IFN Modern. I just ordered their lounge chair. EXCELLENT seller. In three-five days, I'll know just now much I love it! 

post #803 of 933
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Edited by Jr Mouse - 11/5/15 at 2:57pm
post #804 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistoffat View Post

If intellectual property is not to be respected then many of the product innovations we have, whether in the fields of furniture or medicine might otherwise not have been created.

Where I might agree that an Eames Chair is overpriced , I also respect that Vitra and Herman Miller have a staff to pay and also need funds to create the Eames Chairs of tomorrow. I don´t see the companies making fakes being creative and offering us innovative new products thus creating employment and paying taxes thus benefiting society.

I disagree. I think that's a really simplistic way to approach the issue; IMO it's far more complex than that.

Walk into a Vitra, Herman Miller, Flos, etc showroom - and look around.

80-90% of the designs on display are "legacy" designs - Aeron chair, Tulip table, EM table, etc etc. There are always one or two "it" items from "it" designers, this rotates year to year, and rarely do they have the endurance to join the legacy designs. I think what you consider their contribution to the design landscape is probably massively overstated when you consider the bulk of what they are actively pushing originated 30, 40, 50, 60 years ago.

Think about the reason for this...

IMO the internet, magazines, design blogs, etc has created possibly the world's biggest circlejerk for "designed" things. If you want to know more - information is readily available. But over time the collective preferences of people that came before you becomes the benchmark choice, and your chance of discovering something new and interesting will drop - it's a numbers game.

A Pavlovian response develops in many to "design shorthand" - you see a single item enough in situations you perceive to be "designed", and subconsciously your reaction to subsequent settings starts hinging a lot more on the presence of these items. e.g. Barcelona chair, e.g. Eames DSW, e.g. that fucking $2000 Hermes blanket.

One specific part of your argument is immediately short circuited when you consider that the replica companies... also hire people. Who pay taxes. And so also "benefit society".

I think the replica companies do the "design world" a huge service. I think they disrupt the perceived value of these design legacy items, and cause us to question why they should cost so much.

In many cases, there isn't really a particularly good reason.

I think they might even have the potential to direct choices to less obvious ones. Imagine:

1. I have $3000 to spend on 6 dining table chairs
2. I kinda like the Thonet bentwood chairs - remember that I am conditioned to like them at $400 a pop
3. I realise that the replicas cost $79 each - and are functionally equivalent and (realistically) only marginally cosmetically inferior
4. I might buy something else
5. I might even buy something else newly designed by someone new to the industry

...so in a sense, they may contribute more to the variety of the design landscape, by showing us that sometimes the emperor has no clothes.

Just my 2c.
post #805 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post

One specific part of your argument is immediately short circuited when you consider that the replica companies... also hire people. Who pay taxes. And so also "benefit society".

99% of those jobs are in China, where HM's is in California, also replica's are taking business for new designers, who create items in the same price point, which is essentially taking the food out of their mouth as well, which could create even more jobs.
post #806 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post

99% of those jobs are in China, where HM's is in California, also replica's are taking business for new designers, who create items in the same price point, which is essentially taking the food out of their mouth as well, which could create even more jobs.
We could argue the semantics of this all day, but I highly doubt "99%" of HM, Vitra, etc employees/subcontractors/suppliers are stateside in the world we live in today.

Replica companies also run showrooms, warehouses, transport, etc - and believe it or not, these people pay taxes too. Like I said, we could go over the specifics all day, but I think the bottom line is that it isn't as simple as the black/white situation you guys are trying to present.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post

... new designers, who create items in the same price point, which is essentially taking the food out of their mouth as well, which could create even more jobs.
I think if you even gave it a modicum of thought you would realise that HM is doing exactly the same to new designers. I.e. mostly people have space for only 1 or 2 dining tables, and creating a situation in which people could question the established hierarchy of design ("is this worth that") would far advantage the new designers IMO. It's really not as simple as you're making it out to be.
post #807 of 933
I have worked in the furniture field for a number of years, so I have put more thought into this than most, as I have worked primarily with young designer, who retail in the same price bracket at Eames etc., so I have an in dept knowledge of price structure, development costs etc.

If you look back at my post, I have said multiple times, that people should support living designer over buying Heritage pieces and especially if they can't afford a genuine piece, as replica manufacture aren't hiring designer and if people don't support the living designer, the trade WILL die and as no one wants to be a designer, if they can't make a living of it. Replica manufacture don't hire marketing etc. workers on the same scale as a self developing firm does, as they don't have the need to make a product known.

HM is manufacturing in the US, where all replica piece are made in China, which costs low wage jobs, which is a problem on a large scale, as the developed part of the world, is loosing them at a rapid speed to the undeveloped part.
post #808 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post

I disagree. I think that's a really simplistic way to approach the issue; IMO it's far more complex than that.





I think the replica companies do the "design world" a huge service. I think they disrupt the perceived value of these design legacy items, and cause us to question why they should cost so much.



Just my 2c.

Nonsense. It doesn´t effect price. Its the people who don´t have the means who buy the fakes. Wheter it be an LV bag or an Eames Chair. Many believe you need to have the bag or chair to be cool. Victims of marketing rather than appreciators of handwork. A fake is a fake and doesn´t have the same quality and hence shouldn´t have the same price. I myself will admit that an Eames Chair is overpriced for what it is. If however I had money to burn then maybe I´d say what the hell and buy 10 chairs so myself and my friends can sit and watch the Pagaini Zonda I parked in my living room. I was brought up to respect money and to know the difference between value and price. Just because I myself believe the Eames Chair is overpriced I still would never buy a fake as a compromise.If you support fakes then you may as well support Lance Armstrong.
post #809 of 933
If anything replicas drive the price of the original higher. The manufacture will want to create a wider chasm between real and fake in the perception of the consumer and they will do so by way of price.
post #810 of 933
Bought a modernica cigar floor lamp and an Eames hang it all from somebody who doesn't know what he had. Wish I have an architect friend who would hook me up with hm pieces for fifty percent off
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