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Nike No More - Page 2  

post #16 of 88
I think you make a very good point, Max. Also, individual corporations can take measures to improve worker conditions beyond what is required in those countries, individual customers can boycott the ones that don't, but isn't the most effective solution to actually change the laws in those countries? The WTO can also be used as a platform to implement global labor and environmental reform. I find a lot of the criticism against globalization very shortsighted.
post #17 of 88
Thread Starter 
Max, I reread both your posts, and took another look at adbusters website. Nowhere do they claim that consumption in and of itself is wrong. This is a misreading of their motive.

As I tried to state in my last post, in our culture, we are expected by and large to wear shoes in public. You could call buying clothes a necessity. You can be barred from public places and even arrested without clothes. No shoes, no shirt, no service; public indecency, etc.

If this is the case, then where do you buy clothes from? For me, I would like to buy from sources that are socially responsible. I can't and won't always do this (too expensive--adbusters is, but NoSweat or American Apparel are not), don't like the style (again, adbusters). But at least by becoming aware of sources like adbusters and NoSweat, we have some alternatives.

Also, someone stated that there are hundreds of thousands or even millions looking for work in China. Does this mean that American companies should allow for sexual abuse, overlook 20 hour shifts, and fire anyone who attempts to unionize? Does labor demand justify this pattern of behavior? It ALLOWS for it, but does not justify it.

Adamm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max
Just to clarify, I don't even own a pair of nikes. My beef is with the adbusters folk preaching anti-consumerism on one hand and selling anti-consumerism on the other, if that makes any sense.
post #18 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapmutha
you cant expect people living in a 3rd world country to make american wages, and you also have to realize that cost of living is nowhere near what it is here.

plus, they can always jack shit from the factory and resell on ebay.

Yeah, they can sell them on ebay using the computer they have in the den of their house, then drive to the post office in their car to mail them off.

Please, travel to a third world country and find out what it is really like and why the cost of living is lower, e.g., no toilet, no medical care, no car/bicycle/motorcycle, refrigerator, TV, phone. The lucky people who have a house have one-room with a whole family in it, no glass on the windows, bare cement or dirt floor, corrugated tin roof, no heater, certainly no A/C. Cooking done on the floor using a propane burner or white gas cookstove.

This is how most of the world lives.

I have no opinion on the shoe issue. The people who make the $1 or so per day really need it, but no doubt Nike could pay more too.

But then I really wonder how many of the people who boycot Nike mail off donations to UNICEF? F**k waiting for corporate charity--take the time spent protesting and get a part time job, then donate the proceeds.

Sorry for the rant, but not sorry enough not to post it.
post #19 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelerray
Yeah, they can sell them on ebay using the computer they have in the den of their house, then drive to the post office in their car to mail them off.


I'm not quite sure that he was being serious...

+1 for sweatshops.
post #20 of 88
Quote:
Does this mean that American companies should allow for sexual abuse, overlook 20 hour shifts, and fire anyone who attempts to unionize? Does labor demand justify this pattern of behavior? It ALLOWS for it, but does not justify it.
Wal Mart.
post #21 of 88
Confession: I haven't really read adbusters since the mid to late 90s. Maybe their editorial position is changed, but they're probably still preaching anti consumerism from the pages of a $9 magazine. Also, learn the difference between consumerism and consumption.
post #22 of 88
Thread Starter 
On that count, learn how to define "splitting hairs."

I can see you like to argue, call names, misinterpret the arguments and positions of those posting. This is the type of immaturity I have to deal with all the time among the young people I supervise. It's a way of trying to create discomfort in others so that you don't have to deal with the real issues here.

Learn to manage your own anxiety in dealing with serious topics. Trust me, this type of strategy is reflective of your mindset in dealing with important issues in general.

Peace,

Adamm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max
Confession: I haven't really read adbusters since the mid to late 90s. Maybe their editorial position is changed, but they're probably still preaching anti consumerism from the pages of a $9 magazine.

Also, learn the difference between consumerism and consumption.
post #23 of 88
I saw a pair of these on Nylon for Guys. I hear countless stories about Nike's sweatshops but I haven't done my research so I can't toss in my 2 cents. I do know that I would've prefered buying chucks not owned by Nike though Oh yeah and, I think that if you're buying shoes to help save the world or something like that, http://www.azaleaonline.com/tommshocamo.html would be more suited.
post #24 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by m@T
yup, he got it.

Living where I do definitely changes your perception of the issue.


Amen to that brother! Easy for them to say.

I dare these bleeding heart armchair activists to come over to Vietnam or Laos, Cambodia and even the Philippines.
post #25 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamm411
I didn't know Nike manufactured Chucks and now I'm feeling slightly miffed. As you already know, Nike pays its workers 50 cents an hour, and refuses to recognize efforts to improve working conditions in its factories. Nike is also the manufacturer of the beloved Chuck Taylors. However, you can now buy the classic Chuck Taylor look and style from companies that treat their workers right:

I appreciate you trying to revive my thread on sweatshops in the main clothing forum, unfortunately people were not terribly interested...again. My impetus for posting there was a series of posts regarding bootlegged goods and I thought sweatshops tied in nicely. Nope. If the discourse is proceeding any better here, I will gladly chime in but, if not, I think we're better off keeping those types of discussions to the BlackFlagCafe and our university classes.
post #26 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by acidicboy
Amen to that brother! Easy for them to say.

I dare these bleeding heart armchair activists to come over to Vietnam or Laos, Cambodia and even the Philippines.

I lived in Batombang for a year and I know SE Asia and NE Asia very well. I dropped the other thread (M&S) because it was not appropriate for this forum but I take exception to being called an "armchair activitist" and I associate "bleeding hearts" with hippies. I have seen many of these sweatshops myself and the conditions are revolting. If I didn't know what I was talking about I would have enough sense to leave the discussion quietly but, I can only assume, given the similarity of the topics, you are addressing me as well. You mentioned previously you had some sort of association with this type of factory in the Philippines which I find deplorable of character and conscience. You also ended the other thread with civility and without insult which, despite obviously conflicting points of view, I respect. I hope this thread can continue with the same dignity that the other died.
post #27 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by acidicboy
Amen to that brother! Easy for them to say. I dare these bleeding heart armchair activists to come over to Vietnam or Laos, Cambodia and even the Philippines.
Yea I can see what you mean. People who prefer to buy shoes from a company who's mission is to improve the quality of life and working conditions instead of a company who's mission is certainly not, are obviously bleeding heart armchair activists who would never dare step outside their lilly white house into the cold hard 3rd world they are so ignorant about. What is up with people these days who only care about themselves so much that they put up some kind of "holier than thou" facade to make themselves look educated and socially aware?
post #28 of 88
i used to be all socially aware and stuff. its really strange... a lecture by an objectivist made me rethink some of the issues.

currently, i would buy socially responsible if the product was the same or better though.
post #29 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamm411
I didn't know Nike manufactured Chucks and now I'm feeling slightly miffed. As you already know, Nike pays its workers 50 cents an hour, and refuses to recognize efforts to improve working conditions in its factories. Nike is also the manufacturer of the beloved Chuck Taylors. However, you can now buy the classic Chuck Taylor look and style from companies that treat their workers right:

Would you rather they don't get paid at all?
post #30 of 88
Thread Starter 
Who cares what I think? Who cares what Adam or Adamm thinks? But I think the workers should have the right to organize themselves, first.

Second, these companies are NOT doing these workers a favor. Phil Knight and other CEO's are paying millions upon millions directly and indirectly to corrupt, dictatorial regimes which keep workers in check by any means necessary.

Imprisonment, murder and simple intimidation and tolerance of abuse are the tools by which workers are kept in line. These political regimes are nothing without the financial and military support of the US and US corporations.

Adamm

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamG
Would you rather they don't get paid at all?
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