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Grenson Handgrade? - Page 3

post #31 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKDKid View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

And that's why leather quality across the board has gone down over the years.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Are you saying there's a supply issue with leather, causing general leather quality to go down? Or are you sayingRTW shoe manufacturers aren't willing to pay these high prices, causing the quality of the leather they're using to go down?

Got it in two. Go back and read the anecdote about June Swann and "64 to the inch."

Additionally, it's near-as-nevermind a self-evident truth that if an RTW maker does not need to pay for premium insole shoulder...because they are gemming rather than sewing directly to the insole, for instance...they will not. Why should they?

In turn, as consumer acceptance of GY becomes more widespread, the demand for quality insole shoulder diminishes.

Tanneries close.

And pretty soon those that are left have to raise their prices to compensate for the lack of demand. As a result, manufacturers face even steeper prices...if it ever occurred to them to go back to better quality. And the whole industry, from manufacturer to bespoke maker, ends up with a scarce resource at higher prices. Eventually, because cheaper insole material is being used, it supplants the better quality in the minds of the consumer. And then the better stuff disappears entirely.

That's when the whole cycle begins anew.
Quote:
Is your definition of "quality" when it comes to shoes only restricted to construction and materials?
Yes
Quote:
You don't consider design, shape, fit and finishing to be aspects of quality?

No. Superficialities...that's what you're really talking about. With no bearing on longevity or structural integrity.

Fit is another thing altogether. Another aspect for another thread...but suffice it to say if you're buying RTW, in all likelihood you've never really been fit.

I think design, shape and finishing are critical to presentation and to marketing. I want the shoes I make to be as well finished and well designed as I can possibly make them. It is a lifelong pursuit. But it has nothing to do with objective quality except as an indicator, perhaps, of whether quality was ever a real concern in the making.

Bottom line, to buy a pair of shoes (any product or artifact)...at any price point...without knowing how they are made and what goes into them, knowing only the brand name and depending on that alone to provide some verisimilitude of quality is to be, by definition a "brand whore." It's not buying substance, it's buying pretense. Image.
Edited by DWFII - 8/3/11 at 8:34pm
post #32 of 66
Thread Starter 
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/mens-fashion/grenson-pitti-uomo-2012

There's some new stuff coming out. Looking forward to their top-end stuff.

Bit wary of their current Rose line - the shoes I looked at were not fully leather-lined, which is something you should expect at over £200. The Grenson Bleasdale had crappy white metal ski-hooks (definitely a drop in quality from last year).
post #33 of 66

Do I not bother with shoes until I'm ready to stump up GBP 3,500? Treat my feet with vinegar? :)

 

DWFII; who do you consider to be the best lower middle RTW makers?

 

Cheers,

WIGS

post #34 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by whereIGetSocks View Post

Do I not bother with shoes until I'm ready to stump up GBP 3,500? Treat my feet with vinegar? :)

 

DWFII; who do you consider to be the best lower middle RTW makers?

 

Cheers,

WIGS



Well, while I appreciate the compliment in asking my opinion, the truth is that I don't concern myself that much with comparisons of RTW shoes. I suspect that to a very real degree they are all similar in quality...from $200.00 to $2000.00. Design, finish and brand cachet are the real distinguishing characteristics and the real basis for price differences.

I think you can probably get a handmade shoe of admirable, if not exceptional, quality for half the price you quoted in your post. Esp. if you are willing to look a little further afield.
post #35 of 66

DWFII,

 

Thank you for the reply. I had a ramble through some other threads and understand re the naming names.

 

Good luck re the shoes side of things.

 

Cheers,

WIGS

 

 

post #36 of 66
Looks like there maybe some developments with the higher end Grensons, looks like there will be some exclusively on Mr Porter .com in the next couple weeks and then appearing on Grenson website in November.

Hi Kevin,

Grenson Shoes wrote "Coming exclusively to mr porter.com within the next couple of weeks and Grenson.com in November"
post #37 of 66
Thread Starter 
Like bloody Meerkats happy.gif
post #38 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post




So does every other bespoke West-End shoemaker.

All the bespoke shoes are made to 'West-End standard', which means they are made over an individual client last (not a fitted-up. already existing last), utilize individual patterns, the closing is done in reference to the particular last, the shoes are hand-lasted, hand-welted (not ball to ball), have a hand-stitched sole and are finished by hand, with not even rotary sander in sight.

Cleverley and Foster (and G&G) also offer ready-to-wear (factory-made) shoes, which, of course, are made differently. They have to offer them, as it pays the rent. JL(London) does not offer RTW, but they get a nice, fat royalty for every gemmed pair made by JL(Paris) in Northampton.



John Lobb (London) uses outworkers, just as every other West-End shoemaker.

All the outworkers come from the same pool and no outworker works exclusive for just one firm. In the UK that pool is made-up from maybe ten bespoke 'closers' and maybe four dozen 'makers' ("It takes one closer to keep four or five makers in work.")

sorry very belated response Bengal, but are these outworkers operating from their backyard sheds or r they based in factories in Northhampton or what? Some would prob do a roaring trade if they advertised on SF etc
post #39 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pliny View Post

Some would prob do a roaring trade if they advertised on SF etc

i suspect that. how many sf-orders did the guy from northhampton - sorry, i forgot his name - receive? ten or twelve in three years? if, i'm wrong. i stand corrected.
post #40 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post


i suspect that. how many sf-orders did the guy from northhampton - sorry, i forgot his name - receive? ten or twelve in three years? if, i'm wrong. i stand corrected.

didn't advertise tho- how many of us actually knew about him? also, not number one quality shoes from what i've seen
post #41 of 66
Who are you guys talking about ?
post #42 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by aj_del View Post

Who are you guys talking about ?

I think his name is Cliff
post #43 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalfordOfLondon View Post


I think his name is Cliff

Coming soon.............

http://clarenceclifford.com/
post #44 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by kev777 View Post


Coming soon.............

http://clarenceclifford.com/

Ohhh intriguing!
I'll keep an eye on that....
post #45 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalfordOfLondon View Post


Ohhh intriguing!
I'll keep an eye on that....

If theres anything else you need help with give me a shout Stephen !!! fight[1].giflol8[1].gif
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