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Does every man need a good quality black captoe? - Page 5

post #61 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidus View Post


What you say may be true, but being a billionaire, oil sheik or celebrity doesn't necessarily make your way of dressing the "right" or the "best" way. Most people in the world, regardless of income, spend no where near the amount of effort and thought on clothing as some people on this forum. I see that you've only been here a month, so you may not have realized that no one, no matter their status, is above criticism when it comes to dressing on this forum. If dressing like the rich and famous was what people here wanted to do, they would put on an ill-fitting suit with some square toed shoes.

While I've heard of a traditional rule against wearing brown shoes at night, I would guess that most of the people you meet with wear black shoes at night not because they're thinking of this rule, but because all their shoes are black. Most people on SF believe that this rule is obsolete and wearing brown shoes at night (in most situations) is perfectly fine provided that the shade of brown matches with your pants.

See my reply to Quad in which I have addressed most of the above regarding billionaires and their various levels of taste.

I do want to get one thing straight though - you are summarily rejecting the opinion of a gentleman who has spent the past 20 years haunting the most exclusive hotels, bars, restaurants, museums, etc. etc. of the world's capitals of culture and sophistication based on the observation that I've only been a Style Forum member for a month. You really want to stick to that? Really?

OK then, since you seem to question my exposure and ability to discern that which is proper and sophisticated from that which is not I guess it's fair for me to enquire as to whom I am speaking to. Specifically how exposed have you been in real life to actual world of culture, wealth and proper attire. So, if you don't mind please respond to the following: I wonder - how many times have you had dinner at the Four Seasons in NYC? Ever even been to NYC? Attended a live opera performance anywhere in the world. How many times have you stayed at the Bulgari hotel in Milan? Have you ever had cocktails with the entire executive committee of a fortune 500 company? Met with any member of any royal family? Or perhaps you are more of a culture hound, in that case maybe you've spent some time at the museum at the Art Institute of Chicago, or maybe at the Frick in NYC. Surely you've been L'Orangerie in Paris - it is just right next to Louvre and a much more intimate museum experience. How did you find the food to be the last time you visited London? Amazing how the food in the UK has improved in the past 20 years isn't it? Regarding fashion have you been to Milan in the past year and if so did you notice how obsessed they all seem to be with Ralph Lauren at the moment? Did you personally supervise the renovation of the St. Regis Hotel in Rome? Have you been inside the home of a billionaire - even a tasteless one?

Oh, and while you did all of these things were you actively watching and noting the attire of the most well dressed and sophisticated people you encountered in order to be certain that your attire was all that it could possibly be on your limited budget working professional man's budget? Unless you can answer yes to a similar list of experiences then I propose to you that my opinion might be at least 'more informed' than yours. Even if it did turn out to be proven incorrect in this particular instance - which it won't.

Granted having done these things does not guarantee that one will develop sophisticated taste - but it does guarantee that I've had lots of REAL LIFE exposure to the more sophisticated and well turned out set than most others have. Unless of course you beg to differ regarding your personal experience.

If we want to debate taste and sophistication here dude you might want to make sure you have the exposure and the chops to do so. I'm no rube. Sure I'm not perfect - sure I can always be corrected. But in the case of what is the most sophisicated and proper shoe to wear to dressy evening situations I am 100% certain that I am not mistaken.

It's really pretty simple.

The only problem here appears to be that few of you are willing to have your beliefs challenged - even in the face of 'eye witness accounts'.

On a more humble note. I'm perfectly happy to break this very rule myself in the right situations - that was never the actual question - the question was and is what is proper and most sophisticated as a general rule. I'm also willing to freely admit that I haven't the financial means to dress in bespoke suits and obtain a wardrobe full of Vass shoes (just in case you think I'm a wealthy snob.)

I also stand by orignal statement regarding how do many of you appear to me when I see you out for dinner in an off the rack suit and brown shoes from Allen Edmonds - you appear to me as if you just arrived from the farm (or maybe the suburbs) and have no real idea of what you are doing. (There is no shame in this - I was once in the same sort of place (Look up Willi Wear if you want a terrifying example) - the only shame is in insisting on remaining so in the face of a more sophisticated understanding.)
post #62 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg View Post

Why even bother with black at a funeral? It's a sad enough occasion without having to wear black shoes. There really is no need for anyone to own any black shoes these days

Except that they sometimes look better than brown shoes...
post #63 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post


See my reply to Quad in which I have addressed most of the above regarding billionaires and their various levels of taste.

I do want to get one thing straight though - you are summarily rejecting the opinion of a gentleman who has spent the past 20 years haunting the most exclusive hotels, bars, restaurants, museums, etc. etc. of the world's capitals of culture and sophistication based on the observation that I've only been a Style Forum member for a month. You really want to stick to that? Really?

OK then, since you seem to question my exposure and ability to discern that which is proper and sophisticated from that which is not I guess it's fair for me to enquire as to whom I am speaking to. Specifically how exposed have you been in real life to actual world of culture, wealth and proper attire. So, if you don't mind please respond to the following: I wonder - how many times have you had dinner at the Four Seasons in NYC? Ever even been to NYC? Attended a live opera performance anywhere in the world. How many times have you stayed at the Bulgari hotel in Milan? Have you ever had cocktails with the entire executive committee of a fortune 500 company? Met with any member of any royal family? Or perhaps you are more of a culture hound, in that case maybe you've spent some time at the museum at the Art Institute of Chicago, or maybe at the Frick in NYC. Surely you've been L'Orangerie in Paris - it is just right next to Louvre and a much more intimate museum experience. How did you find the food to be the last time you visited London? Amazing how the food in the UK has improved in the past 20 years isn't it? Regarding fashion have you been to Milan in the past year and if so did you notice how obsessed they all seem to be with Ralph Lauren at the moment? Did you personally supervise the renovation of the St. Regis Hotel in Rome? Have you been inside the home of a billionaire - even a tasteless one?

Oh, and while you did all of these things were you actively watching and noting the attire of the most well dressed and sophisticated people you encountered in order to be certain that your attire was all that it could possibly be on your limited budget working professional man's budget? Unless you can answer yes to a similar list of experiences then I propose to you that my opinion might be at least 'more informed' than yours. Even if it did turn out to be proven incorrect in this particular instance - which it won't.

Granted having done these things does not guarantee that one will develop sophisticated taste - but it does guarantee that I've had lots of REAL LIFE exposure to the more sophisticated and well turned out set than most others have. Unless of course you beg to differ regarding your personal experience.

If we want to debate taste and sophistication here dude you might want to make sure you have the exposure and the chops to do so. I'm no rube. Sure I'm not perfect - sure I can always be corrected. But in the case of what is the most sophisicated and proper shoe to wear to dressy evening situations I am 100% certain that I am not mistaken.

It's really pretty simple.

The only problem here appears to be that few of you are willing to have your beliefs challenged - even in the face of 'eye witness accounts'.

On a more humble note. I'm perfectly happy to break this very rule myself in the right situations - that was never the actual question - the question was and is what is proper and most sophisticated as a general rule. I'm also willing to freely admit that I haven't the financial means to dress in bespoke suits and obtain a wardrobe full of Vass shoes (just in case you think I'm a wealthy snob.)

I also stand by orignal statement regarding how do many of you appear to me when I see you out for dinner in an off the rack suit and brown shoes from Allen Edmonds - you appear to me as if you just arrived from the farm (or maybe the suburbs) and have no real idea of what you are doing. (There is no shame in this - I was once in the same sort of place (Look up Willi Wear if you want a terrifying example) - the only shame is in insisting on remaining so in the face of a more sophisticated understanding.)

Could you be any more ridiculous?

All your posturing about the places you've been means absolutely nothing.

You simply look at what wealthy people are wearing, and consider that sophistication. You are simply a blind sheep.

I wear what looks good. I think black shoes with a navy suit looks dumb, so I wear brown. Just because you've been to milan or NYC (guess what, I'm there every day) means nothing...nor does the fact that you think writing a novel for each post makes you seem intelligent, cultured, or otherwise.

The fact that you can't form your own opinions on style basically tells me all I need to know about your sophistication
post #64 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by hendrix View Post


Except that they sometimes look better than brown shoes...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg View Post

Why even bother with black at a funeral? It's a sad enough occasion without having to wear black shoes. There really is no need for anyone to own any black shoes these days

Well how about because wearing black to funerals is a centuries old tradition that indicates your respect for the departed and your condolences to the loved one of the deceased, etc. etc. And a custom that is widely practiced to this day throughout most of American and European society.

But then again, Of course your sense of what is fashionable must surely be more important than than the feelings of those who have just lost a loved one ..........so why stop at brown shoes.......wear a bright red suit and a flower in your hair while you are at it.

I'm Sorry for being so snarky. But It seems to me that many in this thread haven't yet grasped the idea of occasionally dressing as a symbol of respect or defference to others. Which is the whole point of black shoes at funerals, formal evening weddings and job interviews.

Sure, you can get away with brown or something less formal - after all the average American male seems to think Dockers and sandals would be appropriate for meeting the Pope.

But don't you guys want to be better than average? Isn't that why you're here?

These things are an essential part of becoming a real man of class and style. There really are only a handfull of simple to follow rules - swallow your dandy pride and learn to follow 'em for your own sake.

Oh - and by the way - The VAST majority of the power and money in the world is controlled by men of 'a certain age' and of a certain type who clearly understand these rules. Even horribly dressed Bill Gates wouldn't break this one. I promise you. If you wish to partake in their club of power and goodies and social admiration you might want to think a little bit more about what might make them happy in terms of how you look. Because the goodies in life don't usually come for free and those who got 'em usually pass along the opportunities to earn them to those who they believe will 'follow in their image'. It's not a pretty truth - but it's reality. At very least conceal your disdain for them and their fuddy duddy ways when you are in their presence.

You guys think it's just shoes - its a WHOLE lot more than that.
post #65 of 103
ok, thats it, whose troll are you?

RSS?
post #66 of 103
You need a pair, if for nothing else a funeral. But I find I often wear them in the evening with my more conservative lounge suits.

But as for formal -- that is what you said, no? -- I use black calf opera pumps.
post #67 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadcammer View Post

ok, thats it, whose troll are you?

RSS?
Oh my! I hadn't read the above when I responded.

I assure, no one else in this thread is RSS ... not even by another name.

What was it we said as kids: Cross my heart and hope to die. Stick a needle in my eye!
post #68 of 103
This thread has turned pretty douchetastic.

Realistically you can get away without black toecap oxfords nowadays, especially in the US. I wouldn't consider someone to have a well rounded wardrobe without them though.
post #69 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendulum View Post

This thread has turned pretty douchetastic.
What is this, AskAndy?

In any event, give me a break. I'm probably old enough to be your grandfather ... or at least your father.
post #70 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendulum View Post

This thread has turned pretty douchetastic.

Realistically you can get away without black toecap oxfords nowadays, especially in the US.
Given the OP's profession, that may be true. But in my life they are pretty damn essential. I'd say a lot depend on the life one leads.
post #71 of 103
If you care about having a "classic" wardrobe, then black captoes are pretty high on the list of essentials. If you're only going to wear them a few times, then Park Avenues are a good solution. If they fit you well.
post #72 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSS View Post

Given the OP's profession, that may be true. But in my life they are pretty damn essential. I'd say a lot depend on the life one leads.

I knew there was a reason I had never checked in on this thread before. I was waiting for this to be said first.
post #73 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post


Sure, you can get away with brown or something less formal - after all the average American male seems to think Dockers and sandals would be appropriate for meeting the Pope.

Okay, I really don't want to wade into the rest of this crap, but as to this point, but a sackcloth robe and sandals was good enough for a fair number of guys we now call saints...

Seriously, the Pope is probably about the last person who would make a fuss about societal rules of dress, only beaten out by say, the Dali Lama.
post #74 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post


Okay, I really don't want to wade into the rest of this crap, but as to this point, but a sackcloth robe and sandals was good enough for a fair number of guys we now call saints...

Seriously, the Pope is probably about the last person who would make a fuss about societal rules of dress, only beaten out by say, the Dali Lama.

Jeff, we are discussing the rules of proper dress in 2011 not 1000 years ago. How on earth is this comment regarding the attire of the saints even germaine?

I never said anything about what the Pope may or may not consider to be proper when he receives you. Surely you understand that my statement was in regard to the quality of the Average American man's sense of style don't you? I can't imagine that you are actually so thick as to miss my obvious point. So I'll have to assume you are avoiding the actual topic by changing it.

However, since you brought up what the Pope might think I thought I would offer you this current advice from 'The Churches' web site concerning it's recommendations for what to wear when meeting the Pope. It may not reflect the Pope's personal beliefs but these are the reccommendations none the less.

"Dress conservatively even if you are one of hundreds. Women wear dark-colored dresses, with unrevealing necklines and long sleeves, and cover their heads. Men wear conservative business suits; in the reserved section some men will wear formal morning dress, and most women will be in black with gloves and mantillas. Some people prefer to arrange for a private audience. These are granted to prominent persons of all religious persuasions. This still does not necessarily mean that you will meet the Pope alone, but you will not be among the throngs for the Wednesday morning audience at saint Peter basilica."

And that's just what they recommend for having the POSSIBILITY of meeting the Pope. So it does seem to me that once again - there are rules one needs to follow.

For what it's worth.

By the way - I'll not address any more snipes from you either - unless you signal to me that you wish to have an actual debate based on reasoning and facts - I'll know this is your intention when you actually make a response to me that appears to be based in either logic or actual verifiable information. If you don't hear from me again in this regard you can assume that your statements failed to impress me with either.

Cheers.
post #75 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post




Well how about because wearing black to funerals is a centuries old tradition that indicates your respect for the departed and your condolences to the loved one of the deceased, etc. etc. And a custom that is widely practiced to this day throughout most of American and European society.

But then again, Of course your sense of what is fashionable must surely be more important than than the feelings of those who have just lost a loved one ..........so why stop at brown shoes.......wear a bright red suit and a flower in your hair while you are at it.

I'm Sorry for being so snarky. But It seems to me that many in this thread haven't yet grasped the idea of occasionally dressing as a symbol of respect or defference to others. Which is the whole point of black shoes at funerals, formal evening weddings and job interviews.

Sure, you can get away with brown or something less formal - after all the average American male seems to think Dockers and sandals would be appropriate for meeting the Pope.

But don't you guys want to be better than average? Isn't that why you're here?

These things are an essential part of becoming a real man of class and style. There really are only a handfull of simple to follow rules - swallow your dandy pride and learn to follow 'em for your own sake.

Oh - and by the way - The VAST majority of the power and money in the world is controlled by men of 'a certain age' and of a certain type who clearly understand these rules. Even horribly dressed Bill Gates wouldn't break this one. I promise you. If you wish to partake in their club of power and goodies and social admiration you might want to think a little bit more about what might make them happy in terms of how you look. Because the goodies in life don't usually come for free and those who got 'em usually pass along the opportunities to earn them to those who they believe will 'follow in their image'. It's not a pretty truth - but it's reality. At very least conceal your disdain for them and their fuddy duddy ways when you are in their presence.

You guys think it's just shoes - its a WHOLE lot more than that.
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