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people who bitch about tipping are scum? - Page 33

post #481 of 754
I pay 2 housekeepers $100 to clean. It takes them about 2-3 hours. They really do a great job. They came today and the place shines.
post #482 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by tullytra View Post


I believe you're thinking of Geoffrey Zakarian.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/dining/27zakarian.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1
Nope, actually I looked it up and it was Jean-Georges Vongerichten. He was sued for 1.75m to 2.2m $. Besides the lawyers' fees he withheld something like 1.1 to 1.5 million dollars just from tipping. Not bad..

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/09/17/us-newyork-restaurants-settlement-idUSN1731439420080917
http://www.meeja.com.au/index.php?display_article_id=229
post #483 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post


I get your point, but firstoff, my suggestion is you start at 15% and go up from there. You may want to eat at the same place more than once. Waiting tables is like poker, you dont remember the big wins, but you damn sure remember the big losses (shit tips).

You are trying to rationalize why someone deserves more money for the cost of an item. So lets say you change policy and every table tips 15$ regardless.

What happens when someone eating alone orders a 10$ appetizer? $15 tip?

Or what happens when you wait on a party of 20 people? $15 tip?

It doesnt work. You are ordering expensive food, you are paying for its preparation, you pay for the service. Buck up.

I'm not asking for a policy change or anything, I'm just asking what justifies the tip amount if the same service was given in both situations, and the tip is essentially for the service. It just doesn't seem like an answer to me; there can't be a good system for tipping, so we just have to go with what we have, and that is to pay a % of what your meal costs.

And don't get me wrong, I've worked in a restaurant for a bit, so to some degree, I understand where people are coming from. And I do understand that if I eat out in the same place consistently, it's best to be on great standing with the staff. But this is something that has always bothered me and I've had issue coming up with a logical justification.
post #484 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.orange View Post

Tipping is not a city in China.

Correct.

I think this might be something which is unique to US culture.

EDIT:

I've never really understood why American's actually do this tipping thing. Surely you get your restaurant bill, and that's it, or you pay the taxi what's on the meter, no more. I've seen tipping being done in American movies and TV shows, but never seen it for real.

I've seen 'Service charge' on restaurant menus and bills, e.g. 'All prices plus 10% service charge', but that's mandatory, you have to pay it. Similar with the 'delivery fee' when you order pizza delivery, or 'booking fee' when one buys a theatre ticket.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-service-charge.htm
"What Is a Service Charge?

Another type of service charge has many people confused. This is when people at restaurants are told to pay a set percentage of the bill as a service fee in lieu of a tip. Many waiters and waitresses can point to the immediate problems with this scenario. Any fee is not a tip and belongs to the restaurant owner and not to the waiter or waitress. This means the owner can distribute the fee in any manner he sees fit, or can keep all of it."

Edited by MikeDT - 8/3/11 at 4:36am
post #485 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by stylemeup View Post

Non-consensual tipping, such as described in the OP, should be outlawed because it is extortion.

The pejorative thread title which calls people dirty names for objecting to being extorted is ridiculous. IMO the thread title alone qualifies this as a DT.
This is the entire premise of my argument in this thread.
post #486 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashaansafin View Post

you are exactly the type of person I was referring to. Way to assume I don't tip. Reading comprehension ftw. I said you don't deserve it, not that I don't give it. I tip perfectly fine.


So what's your argument that I should support your ass? We've asked this 10x already and all you have is generic insults.
I love how people are dismissing that part of the discussion. When you mention that part, all they do is dish out insults. Which means that they know we're right, but don't want to admit it.
post #487 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajak View Post

Scarpe, please note that there is a difference between Canada/USA/UK/Europe and countries with lower costs of living. Paying someone $25 when they are trustworthy enough not to steal from you is worth it when minimum wage is 8 bucks/hr. If minimum wage is <$2? Maybe not.

Likewise, a construction grunt easily makes twice to 2.5x minimum wage after a few months. Of course, that could be an artifact of Vancouver's currently obscene real estate market. You clearly are out of touch with how North America works...

And lastly, its not an issue of "how much they know" or "how hard they work"; its an issue of "what is their job worth". I HATE tidying up. I think $100 a week would be a reasonable sum to not have to do much of the asinine cleaning - like washing windows/dusting/ etc. Likewise, if you're a contractor earning ~$1+K/day, paying out $25 in wages to attract decent workers makes sense.

As for servers? Estimate that 20% of your bill is going to making your night go smoothly, and is just how things work. I'm willing to spend 20% of what my meal is ticketed at to pay for good service.

Please note i never said i knew how thing work in canada and USA, But you do know mexico is part of NA correct? so i do know how things work in one part of it.
and in respect to europe, i know a construction grunt in certain parts is paid about 800-850 euros a month, the smae with maids if you decide to go legal, less if not.

and though the question is what is their job worth on that we can agree, but how do you calculate that? i would say based upon two factors, the job market at the time and the level of work(basically how much knowledge is required).how hard a job is shoudl nto fit in the picture. if it actually mattered why should any politician be making more than a coal miner?
post #488 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by stylemeup View Post

Non-consensual tipping, such as described in the OP, should be outlawed because it is extortion.

The pejorative thread title which calls people dirty names for objecting to being extorted is ridiculous. IMO the thread title alone qualifies this as a DT.

A 20% service charge is just a raise in price. You pay extra for having the opportunity to sit at the large table with your friends. It's not extortion, and if you don't like it, eat somewhere where they don't do it. Pretty simple, yeah?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashaansafin View Post

you are exactly the type of person I was referring to. Way to assume I don't tip. Reading comprehension ftw. I said you don't deserve it, not that I don't give it. I tip perfectly fine.


So what's your argument that I should support your ass? We've asked this 10x already and all you have is generic insults.

The problem is that your thinking is extremely narrow. You are already supporting the waiters, and somebody else is supporting you. The culture here is for the support to be divided in a certain way -- by tip and wage, but that doesn't change that the fact that stripped bare, it is the same as any other payment situation. Do you rail against the indignity of being forced to support your employees?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Gekko View Post

This is the entire premise of my argument in this thread.

I know, it just isn't a good argument. You are going to have to learn to deal with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Gekko View Post

I love how people are dismissing that part of the discussion. When you mention that part, all they do is dish out insults. Which means that they know we're right, but don't want to admit it.

Now that I have responded to you three geniuses and told you why you are not right, I can now tell you that you are awful, disgusting people and I assume that your parents either are as well or are totally embarrassed by how you think about the world around you.
post #489 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarphe View Post


Please note i never said i knew how thing work in canada and USA, But you do know mexico is part of NA correct? so i do know how things work in one part of it.
and in respect to europe, i know a construction grunt in certain parts is paid about 800-850 euros a month, the smae with maids if you decide to go legal, less if not.

and though the question is what is their job worth on that we can agree, but how do you calculate that? i would say based upon two factors, the job market at the time and the level of work(basically how much knowledge is required).how hard a job is shoudl nto fit in the picture. if it actually mattered why should any politician be making more than a coal miner?

Most don't
post #490 of 754
Extortion? Please. You're choosing to go out and eat. It is not like whenever you prepare dinner at home for yourself a waiter shows up with a gun and demands 20% of the cost of the meal.
post #491 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarphe View Post


Please note i never said i knew how thing work in canada and USA, But you do know mexico is part of NA correct? so i do know how things work in one part of it.
and in respect to europe, i know a construction grunt in certain parts is paid about 800-850 euros a month, the smae with maids if you decide to go legal, less if not.

and though the question is what is their job worth on that we can agree, but how do you calculate that? i would say based upon two factors, the job market at the time and the level of work(basically how much knowledge is required).how hard a job is shoudl nto fit in the picture. if it actually mattered why should any politician be making more than a coal miner?

Um, I know many construction grunts that make six figures. Sure it is physical labor and long hours at times, but they aren't starving by any means.
post #492 of 754
What the hell is going on with this thread? crazy.gif
post #493 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMRouse View Post

What the hell is going on with this thread? crazy.gif

Atlanta has shown itself to have a brand new failure.
post #494 of 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by iammatt View Post


Atlanta has shown itself to have a brand new failure.

Gekko is a troll, dashaafin is asian and stylemeup is in Toronto. Their lack of social graces are easily explained...
post #495 of 754
Whatever your personal tipping habits, you gotta admire the ingenuity of it all, especially if you are a US restaurant owner.
Through tipping, owners have managed to convince people to do work for them for less than minimum wage, freeing them from managerial responsibilities such as ensuring high turn rate or optimizing staff utilization, and adding a nice random component to employee compensation.
When wait staff goes home with a light pay cheque for that day, instead of blaming themselves or their bosses, they blame it on the customers with whom they have no contractual relationship whatsoever.
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